Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

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Zakarie Di'Vosk
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Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Zakarie Di'Vosk »

I'd like to make the suggestion to re-activate the saber clashes onto the server. I've noticed they have been gone for awhile and its quite sad to see that such a powerful roleplay tool was removed. I have heard that apparently it was removed as ''It did not require skill to win'' and caused spars to end quickly. I'm sorry if i'm being blunt, but JEDI is not about skill so this is not a valid reason to remove it. Sadly the server has become overwhelmed with members sparring, and simply saying ''Well met'' after each spar, and no this is not just targeted at students, Knights are just as bad for this. I feel that the saber clashes adds that extra buzz to roleplay, and gives you something to speak about after a spar. It creates atmosphere and draws you into the spar. I think removing it was a big mistake.

I've not only suggested this to get it activated, but also to find out why it was removed. I am getting the feeling that it was complained about by the members who take sparring more seriously on a OOC level and hence complained so they could have that JK3 experience of sparring. I'm sorry, but this is JEDI and we should focus the servers around immersion and granting that roleplay experience, not OOC spars and a console full of ''Well mets''.


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Last edited by Zakarie Di'Vosk on Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sirius Invictus
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Sirius Invictus »

I am all in for that. I always found the thought enjoyable. Plus, RP wise it sounds perfect! So... +1
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Heron Liagri
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Heron Liagri »

Perhaps for certain rp situations. All the time? That's a no for me.
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Zakarie Di'Vosk
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Zakarie Di'Vosk »

Heron Liagri wrote:Perhaps for certain rp situations. All the time? That's a no for me.

Can I ask why? Just curious as to what the reason is because I know alot of people that go against this are the ones who enjoy the OOC sparring and my aim is to get that habit out of JEDI. Plus if I remember correctly, we can make it so the clashes happen less often.

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Heron Liagri
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Heron Liagri »

Because realistically every spar doesn't have a saber clash in it. From what I remember, saber clashes happen REALLY often in jedi academy. If you're insinuating that I constantly OOC spar, you'd be mistaken. OOC sparring is walking into a room, with no type of rp at all and just fighting, not even saying anything afterwards. Taking away saber clashes- in my opinion, wasn't bringing in the jk3 experience, but making a spar more realistic, as no one ever has constant saber clashes. Even if you brought this in to stop OOC sparring, it will still go on, regardless of what you bring into it. Not to mention, there's emotes for saber clashes. If there is a way to decrease how frequent they happen, then sure, but I'd rather not have to spam my mouse button as it's already on the verge of breaking.
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Voh Phaar
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Voh Phaar »

Totally agree with this, will bring some diversity to spars other than the usual chat being clogged with “well met”, several times. Spars can have rp in then aswell people. Clashes are a great way to introduce even a little bit more to a spar than what we have now.

Jedi is about roleplay and not mechanics. Base JKA is always an option if you want a good fight.

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Zakarie Di'Vosk
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Zakarie Di'Vosk »

I'm not insinuating you do, just I know that alot go against this for that reason. I'm not going to sugar coat it, people -do- OOC spar in JEDI, and I understand saber clashes have its ups and downs, but in my opinion if it discourages people from OOC sparring on the server because of it, then that is worth the sacrifice. I would rather have that immersive feel to a spar than just run around swinging, then saying ''Well fought''. I try add constructive criticism at the end of every spar, but not all do and its sad to watch JEDI fall into that habit.

Yes, we have emotes. But we also have this option which is fluent. You also dont need to spam the mouse button, you should know if your character is capable of beating the opponent in such a bout, and act accordingly. If I was facing Zechs for example, I know i'd lose, so I would not spam my mouse button just to get that advantage. It shows realism if used -correctly-. Which for a community like JEDI, that should not be a problem.

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Zechs Demming
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Zechs Demming »

So, digging into old forums and my own memory of when these were turned off.

Saber clashes were disabled because of a few reasons, if I recall correctly.

1)The winner, if the attack lands, does a massive amount of damage, and some of the locks, particularly the staff lock is essentially a massive KO.
2)The loser if timed right, can just jump out of the way, basically negating any benefit of winning.
and
3)The winner is stuck in the attack animation for a second or two, while the loser is free to move and attack, leading to a lot of people purposely losing the lock, just to get a free attack in.

Now there were A LOT of discussions back in the day on saber locks and how to try and balance them out, making them happen less often(as they would occur a fair amount), different effects. Things like, having the loser get knocked back, unable to jump out of way, having them drop their saber, random things.

A lot of it fell down to the game engine just not being what we wanted it to be.
I don't know if Soh has been able to make any progress in this category, and I wouldn't want to speak for him.
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Tycho Varga
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Tycho Varga »

I can agree with this. There have been a few instances where I've seen nothing but "Well met" being said on the entire server. Something that has a chance of spicing this up would be nice.

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Duncan Therin
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Duncan Therin »

If I recall correctly, one of the primary reasons that locks were disabled is because you would see someone, say a significantly larger Jedi Knight, lock with an initiate. The initiate wins the spar because they overpowered the Knight in a saber lock. Realistically, this would never happen. Or if a significantly larger and stronger character loses a lock to a smaller opponent.

I also believe there was a slight issue where, if team spars happened, a pair would get into a lock with their fellow teammate and slaughter each other. There are also a few instances where two opposing members in a team spar lock, and someone from one of the other teams runs up and hacks them from the backside as they struggle.

That said, I have nothing against locks. I try to look at this from both sides. Personally, I enjoy them, think they add to the spice of life. The frequency would need to go a bit further down than what it was, and if at all possible, take into consideration aspects such as model scale.

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Zakarie Di'Vosk
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Zakarie Di'Vosk »

Zechs Demming wrote: 1)The winner, if the attack lands, does a massive amount of damage, and some of the locks, particularly the staff lock is essentially a massive KO.
Realistic, if you lost a clash and did get struck by a lightsaber, it would do some damage. In my opinion this just adds to roleplay, making you act out what happened and grants that extra roleplay to a spar. Plus, you do have a few seconds to jump out, if you so choose that your character is capable of doing such and able to continue.

Zechs Demming wrote: 2)The loser if timed right, can just jump out of the way, basically negating any benefit of winning.
and
Which once again, adds to the roleplay. Some characters can jump out of these and it is a possibility as seen in many Star Wars movies. Adds an extra point to speak about after the spar is over. Such as complimenting the character for reacting quick enough.

Zechs Demming wrote: 3)The winner is stuck in the attack animation for a second or two, while the loser is free to move and attack, leading to a lot of people purposely losing the lock, just to get a free attack in.
This is where JEDI have to stand up and show that we're capable of roleplaying realism, even in spars and heated situations. If you have just escaped a saber lock, you should give both characters time to recover and show respect. If they dont, you can scold them after and make it a tradition to not do such actions, or not. It just adds to roleplay, some character may take advantage of the opportunity. But from what I have gathered, these are all OOC complaints regarding the mechanics of the saberlock. We should be bigger than this and be able to ignore the OOC issues and be able to roleplay around it.

Its just a matter of us being respectful and not take advantage of OOC mechanics to gain an advantage ICly.

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Heron Liagri
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Heron Liagri »

The fact of the matter is only about three people will use it correctly, as once a spar commences regardless of if it was IC or OOC, the mindset of people behind the PC is to -win-. I tune down my effort against a lot of people, (I'm not trying to be cocky, so please don't take it that way.) due to their ranking, age, or strength against me. I don't know if you noticed or not, but I'm sure other people have- I myself try to add conversation to spars, as I do agree it's stupid when people spar and only say well met, then "That's enough, good bye.". Not to mention, there are a lot of people that get angry when they lose a spar OOCly, even if they wouldn't have had the chance to win in a IC situation anyway.

People hate losing OOCly and will bring it to their character ICly. Zechs and Duncan have made a few points on why it isn't that great an idea, but I won't be negative about it. As I said, and will keep by my statement, I think that it wouldn't be an issue if the frequency could be toned down, and a few other issues as well.

Perhaps I brought up some stuff I shouldn't, but it all falls down to the same thing about OOC sparring. I stand by my first post.
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Zakarie Di'Vosk
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Zakarie Di'Vosk »

My main reason for the mechanic/saber clashes to be activated is to discourage OOC sparring and trust those to RP responsibly. Like Voh stated, those who want that experience can go to base JA and not bring it onto an RP environment.

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Rothel Janoo
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Rothel Janoo »

Zakarie Di'Vosk wrote:My main reason for the mechanic/saber clashes to be activated is to discourage OOC sparring and trust those to RP responsibly. Like Voh stated, those who want that experience can go to base JA and not bring it onto an RP environment.
I completely agree with this. If the purpose of JEDI is to RP, then that RP aspect should be strengthened as much as possible.
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Heron Liagri
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Re: Activate 'Saber Clashes'?

Post by Heron Liagri »

If we're not here to experience JA we could always go text based. I mean, if you think there isn't enough rp, maybe more people should stop hiding away from everyone and sitting with their bubble up, or going to rp by themselves on a server with more than 5 people on. OOC sparring is an issue because those that talk about 'RP should be this' rarely interact with others, or people think their characters shouldn't be talking to someone because they don't icly like the same things. I myself am a victim of staying away from others, but it's mostly because of how many things im doing at once. Also, people tend to stay away from others because they 'OOCly' don't like them because of what their friends have said about them OOCly.

There are a lot of issues, but this will be my last post. No hard feelings, just my opinion. I apologize for any hurt feelings.
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