Class Balance (Proposal 3 Page 10, Updated 288.22)

[Tomoran]

I've suggested an instance where individuals can't learn Yellow until they pass BLAT, so I am not just saying this here.

Also, the fact that by level 25 every master knows everything about every force power in our template seems silly. The higher levels should certainly cost way more, the lower levels should probably cost more, speed I upped to 25 because as it stands, getting more than one point in speed is more or less pointless. To drop 5 points in a skill that you can use forever and have such an advantage with seems silly. If it's changed so that it has its scaling upgrades (and not having all of its potential at level 1) then I will remove it to a more gradual upgrade in point cost.

And obviously people would need to reallocate their points in their templates. I would drop protect, have storm at 4 and not have my extra "what if" powers. Oh no!

I thought we wanted our characters to not be so ridiculous? The notion that this should all be planted on the back of the Knights teaching strikes me as similarly silly since we have a mod that serves the purpose to create these restrictions and arbitrates these things to a degree.

"people wrongfully power-levelling" - How does anybody do that? Getting more xp? Students get XP in accordance with what their master thinks they get, and Knights don't get to just give themselves experience. People have exaggerated powers because they cost little and have silly restrictions. Around level 18-19 basically everybody has most of what they want and they just start tossing into whatever else - things aren't expensive enough.

And what can knights/masters do about students dropping points into things? They can't modify rpmod accounts to adjust max templates of students, and trust me, students who create wonky templates or roleplay bizarre power capacities are only digging themselves hilariously deep graves.

We hold the Knights and Masters responsible. We also hold the students responsible.

[Cynthia]

I like how some of them are a bit higher, but a little too high in my opinion. Speed: 25? The only way these things would work (in my opinion of course) would be if more xp was granted. Because I probably would not learn a new power or improve current powers in 4 IC years if that were the case.

[Tomoran]

I'm willing to drop the first two levels of powers slightly, it's more concept than final numbers. I want to get an idea of which -system- is best and then fine tune it until it has sound numbers.

[Illrian Damaris]

...well, I typed out this really long message then decided to delete it, either way..

I think XP wise, at the very least 1-2 shouldn't be touched. The higher levels I think should have an XP boost, make them cost more. But for the first few levels I think it's really foolish. In my opinion.

I like the idea you said about making it where people need to pass BLAT before getting Yellow Stance. That's smart, it's logical. It makes absolutely perfect sense for that to happen. Also, I do agree that with the higher levels on some parts (let's say Storm and such) Council Approval should be gotten. With an explanation of how much training (and what kind) was done, why do they want it or need it. These types of things should be answered and be granted approval before they can get it.

Personally, if it was possible, I'd say make the XP cost for higher levels (3-5) depends on what class you are. Like.. the Force Powers cost more XP for a Guardian then they do a Consular, and Saber Arts costs more for a Consular then a Guardian. Just like some abilities aren't granted to Guardian's at say lvl 14, but they are to Consulars. Things like that. If that was at all possible, I would say that would be a nice addition. Don't make it an extreme difference like the HP/SH/FP are, but a small difference between them all.

[Tomoran]

Don't think it's possible to make the powers cost more based on class.

[Cynthia]

I like the idea you said about making it where people need to pass BLAT before getting Yellow Stance.

That is another problem I have. Some of us (me), are destined to never be online during a class, due to school and other reasons. I think for an initiate and masterless padawan this is a good rule (Unless they have permission otherwise), but I am sure I will probably never ever pass BLAT until Summer Break. So, perhaps a less strict rule about this, but still a rule?

[Illrian Damaris]

Don't think it's possible to make the powers cost more based on class.

Well damn. I was worried about that, but mehh it was worth putting out there.

That is another problem I have. Some of us (me), are destined to never be online during a class, due to school and other reasons. I think for an initiate and masterless padawan this is a good rule (Unless they have permission otherwise), but I am sure I will probably never ever pass BLAT until Summer Break. So, perhaps a less strict rule about this, but still a rule?

I personally did think about Cynthia when I mentioned this. Simply because I know she isn't able to attend the majority of the classes due to RL. So I was going to suggest that perhaps if a Master of their Padawan feel they are more then ready for the Yellow stance, then they could approve it.. but besides Padawan Learner's, one needs to pass BLAT first.

[Tomoran]

Masters are free to ask the Council about -any- kind of power upgrades for Padawans. This isn't any different.

[Illrian Damaris]

Masters are free to ask the Council about -any- kind of power upgrades for Padawans. This isn't any different.

Alright, so basically the rule would be implied about needing to pass BLAT unless a Master approves their own Padawan of the next stance.. Sounds like a good idea to me.

[Alkur Tekeil]

Screwing around with the XP costs on an incomplete power set is pointless.

We should be focusing on finalizing the powers before we bother with any sort of XP and/or class system.

[Delmi N'jork]

Agreed 100%

[Amoné Fayden]

Screwing around with the XP costs on an incomplete power set is pointless.

We should be focusing on finalizing the powers before we bother with any sort of XP and/or class system.

Agreed.

"people wrongfully power-levelling" - How does anybody do that?

By turning up purposely for class, then leaving after without hanging around for even a simple conversation.
By being rewarded large amount of XP for mediocre tasks.
By applying points to skills they have not been introduced to just to boost their arsenal.

And what can knights/masters do about students dropping points into things?

Their job!
Keep an eye on what students are doing, especially initiates. The self-teaching yellow stance is a good example. Don't just shrug it off.
If the student is your padawan, then make sure they are actually deserving of a skill before giving it. A crummy 10 minute session does not merrit as a decent lesson.
Also, are you saying there is no way for an admin to REMOVE a skill point from a template because that student has wrongfully taken it?


What you are suggesting Tomoran is that Game Play should take presidence over role play here. That's a bad direction to go.
I understand that you don't want to Role Play being able to jump if you can't actually do it through game mechanics. "Put your game where your mouth is" and all that.

I have push 1 (because I was directed to apply it) yet I think I have pressed the key to use it about ... 5 times. Just because I have access to a skill does not mean I am a master at it nor does it mean I use it constantly. My RP and my character dictates what skills I take. My Template does not dictate my RP.

Right now, because the level 1 Force Points are affordable, people can specialize at an early stage. That's great if you ask me! Students can start forming their strengths (and subsequently, short falls) early in their career.
By Making the ONLY achievable powers Jump, Push and Pull you are simply paving the way for a boring cookie-cutter Jedi.
People will pick the low-hanging fruit when it comes to Force Powers.

"Oh I really want speed but I can't be bothered saving a rediculous amount of points for it, so i'll just take jump, push or pull so i'm loaded because they're easier to get."

This is removing the freedom of choice and herding us down a narrow leveling experience.

Just because Speed has "little" change as it levels, should not be reason to make it out to be a super-difficult skill to learn. It should be fairly simple for in initiate to learn in a short time.


EDIT: My post does sound very agumentative, so i'm sorry about that. However I tend to respond when I see RP being placed second to Gameplay

[Eugen Darkrider]

I fully agree with what Amoné said.

And there is one more thing I want to add. No offense intended of course. Tomoran, you said: ---"people wrongfully power-leveling" - How does anybody do that?---

Well, I agree with you, In the place where you 'can't' see how one power levels. Why?
Because, to be blunt. And once again, no offense intended. You Empower yourself to use force powers. If I'm mistaken, then sorry.

If you wonder why did I said that? Because...
(Example)
Zeak has xp applied for Hold 3, Saber Offense 3.
Tomoran has xp applied for Hold 1, Saber Offense 1.
So in the end it would be.. logically. Tomoran Can't use Hold 3. Or strong stance.


Maxing the XP, on a system that is not even finished. Not only limits the RP, But makes one go xp frenzy to get that power (leveling up while doing that) that he learned IC wise. And second. Someone told me your level says how strong you are...

RPMod is a tool that we use to RP. Yet, we transformed it in not only a tool. But in a.. -No rpmod, No RP-

RP should not be dictated by game mechanics. But nor one should abuse the RP to be more advanced then he actually is.

Once again. No offense to anyone. Just said my 2 cents.

-Eugen.

[Olim Adasca]

Anyone thought about the fact that suddenly losing powers is kind of dodgy?

[Amoné Fayden]

Anyone thought about the fact that suddenly losing powers is kind of dodgy?

Yeah.

I can see the logic behind making it harder to obtain skills (in order to slow things down) but I just don't think raising the XP requirement is the way to go. I could have 100 XP waiting to be assigned if I were a Knight, but if I have all the powers I feel are correct to my character then that should be enough. I wouldn't feel the need to spend them on any old thing or feel i've reached my "end game" too soon. This is because my RP dictates how advanced or inexperienced I am, not how many Force Powers I can use.

People should just learn restraint, and in the times where this does not happen, leaders should move in to enforce it or at least evaluate it.