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Force Power Updates
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Aslyn Denethorn
- Lost One
- Posts: 2538
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 12:07 am
- Location: One with the Force
Force Power Updates
Hello all,
Just had a few thoughts with regards to the various Force abilities and ways they could be modified in-game to be more realistic. I know they're supposed to be the last thing on the list, and thus months if not years away from being done, but thought it couldn't hurt to throw out some ideas. So, here we go...
Mind Trick
I've always been a little baffled as to the need for the OOC sounds for this - if it works, the person being tricked isn't supposed to know it, and the sound is a dead give-away. But since the sound is removed at Level 4, my thinking is we need a reason for people to upgrade from 3 to 4 that doesn't include the sounds, so they could be removed for ALL levels of Mind Trick. So, here are my thoughts:
- No sounds, at any level
- Each level increases range and/or chance of success (so the game will randomise whether or not the MT succeeds against a given target, so as to represent developing skill of the user, and ability of the target to detect mental manipulation independent of Sense.
Level 1: 512 Range, 50% chance of success
Level 2: 700 Range, 70% chance of success
Level 3: 1024 Range, 85% chance of success
Level 4: 1024 Range, 100% chance of success
Level 5: 1536 Range, 100% chance of success
Force Sense
Reflecting on this ICly, it occurred to me that we incorporate different sense skills into this one ability, so maybe we can expand upon that a little bit both ICly and in terms of mechanics. My primary thought is to build on sensing 'intentions' - all NPCs and players have a different colour aura based on whether they are friendly, neutral or hostile. Normally, you can detect that regardless of the level of Sense, but I'm wondering if it's possible to make that level-specific, since it represents a higher level of ability.
So, I'd go with the following:
Level 1: Range 512, Breaks MT1, No intentions sensed
Level 2: Range 650, Breaks MT2, No intentions sensed
Level 3: Range 800, Breaks MT3, Intentions sensed, enables sniper defense
Level 4: Range 1024, Breaks MT4, intentions sensed, names displayed at 512 and below, sniper defense
Level 5: Range 1536, Breaks all MT, intentions sensed, names fully displayed at 1536 range, sniper defense
Rage/Fury
First off, let's change the animation colour. Red's very...Dark, and it could very easily be considered a Light-Side ability if RPed properly, in the same vein as acceleration (hence, physical enhancement via the Force), but taking a physical toll on the user due to the level of energy they are required to channel (Force Exhaustion...). Blue would be the usual colour, I'd imagine...
So, my thoughts are to slowly remove the downsides to the technique as you advance in level. I'll just throw these out there:
- Ability ceases after 30-45 seconds (perhaps depending on level?) or when user reaches 50hp.
Level 1: Maximum immediate FP drain (so, straight to 0), no FP regen, -4 HP loss per second. Invulnerable for duration, attack and movement speed accelerated by 25%
Level 2: 75% FP drain, no FP regen, -3 HP loss per second. Invulnerability, speed increased by 30%
Level 3: 70% FP drain, no FP regen, -3 HP loss per second. Invul, speed increased by 35%
Level 4: 60% FP drain, 150m/s FP regen (or whatever we set for low-level Sentinel), -2 HP loss per second. Invul, speed +40%
Level 5: 50% FP drain, 130m/s FP regen, -2 HP loss per second, Invul, speed +45%
Just had a few thoughts with regards to the various Force abilities and ways they could be modified in-game to be more realistic. I know they're supposed to be the last thing on the list, and thus months if not years away from being done, but thought it couldn't hurt to throw out some ideas. So, here we go...
Mind Trick
I've always been a little baffled as to the need for the OOC sounds for this - if it works, the person being tricked isn't supposed to know it, and the sound is a dead give-away. But since the sound is removed at Level 4, my thinking is we need a reason for people to upgrade from 3 to 4 that doesn't include the sounds, so they could be removed for ALL levels of Mind Trick. So, here are my thoughts:
- No sounds, at any level
- Each level increases range and/or chance of success (so the game will randomise whether or not the MT succeeds against a given target, so as to represent developing skill of the user, and ability of the target to detect mental manipulation independent of Sense.
Level 1: 512 Range, 50% chance of success
Level 2: 700 Range, 70% chance of success
Level 3: 1024 Range, 85% chance of success
Level 4: 1024 Range, 100% chance of success
Level 5: 1536 Range, 100% chance of success
Force Sense
Reflecting on this ICly, it occurred to me that we incorporate different sense skills into this one ability, so maybe we can expand upon that a little bit both ICly and in terms of mechanics. My primary thought is to build on sensing 'intentions' - all NPCs and players have a different colour aura based on whether they are friendly, neutral or hostile. Normally, you can detect that regardless of the level of Sense, but I'm wondering if it's possible to make that level-specific, since it represents a higher level of ability.
So, I'd go with the following:
Level 1: Range 512, Breaks MT1, No intentions sensed
Level 2: Range 650, Breaks MT2, No intentions sensed
Level 3: Range 800, Breaks MT3, Intentions sensed, enables sniper defense
Level 4: Range 1024, Breaks MT4, intentions sensed, names displayed at 512 and below, sniper defense
Level 5: Range 1536, Breaks all MT, intentions sensed, names fully displayed at 1536 range, sniper defense
Rage/Fury
First off, let's change the animation colour. Red's very...Dark, and it could very easily be considered a Light-Side ability if RPed properly, in the same vein as acceleration (hence, physical enhancement via the Force), but taking a physical toll on the user due to the level of energy they are required to channel (Force Exhaustion...). Blue would be the usual colour, I'd imagine...
So, my thoughts are to slowly remove the downsides to the technique as you advance in level. I'll just throw these out there:
- Ability ceases after 30-45 seconds (perhaps depending on level?) or when user reaches 50hp.
Level 1: Maximum immediate FP drain (so, straight to 0), no FP regen, -4 HP loss per second. Invulnerable for duration, attack and movement speed accelerated by 25%
Level 2: 75% FP drain, no FP regen, -3 HP loss per second. Invulnerability, speed increased by 30%
Level 3: 70% FP drain, no FP regen, -3 HP loss per second. Invul, speed increased by 35%
Level 4: 60% FP drain, 150m/s FP regen (or whatever we set for low-level Sentinel), -2 HP loss per second. Invul, speed +40%
Level 5: 50% FP drain, 130m/s FP regen, -2 HP loss per second, Invul, speed +45%
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Baelin Raddyx
- Lost One
- Posts: 766
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:39 pm
- Location: Alzoc III
I like each of these very much, especially the sense one.
I have not purchased sense 3 because it's completely useless except for breaking mt 3 and there are other ways to detect that. I like something that will give usefulness and reason to buy sense 3 at last.
Your fury suggestions are welcome as well, although i think the color should be character based. Especially in a rp where a darksider uses it and it's red or black, in an rp where a lightsider uses it it could be white or blue. If that was possible that would be very nice.
I support this!!
I have not purchased sense 3 because it's completely useless except for breaking mt 3 and there are other ways to detect that. I like something that will give usefulness and reason to buy sense 3 at last.
Your fury suggestions are welcome as well, although i think the color should be character based. Especially in a rp where a darksider uses it and it's red or black, in an rp where a lightsider uses it it could be white or blue. If that was possible that would be very nice.
I support this!!
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Illrian Damaris
- Lost One
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Yeah, I have to agree with Baelin. I also love the idea of this fully.
Everything seems to be logic, really. There should always be more then just a sound that changes between levels.
So, I support, and hope to see it done.
Everything seems to be logic, really. There should always be more then just a sound that changes between levels.
So, I support, and hope to see it done.
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Don't think rage should make people invulnerable, for starters. As it stands, given all of the ways that I can understand forms of protection, it wouldn't be invulnerable to all forms of damage. JA is just ... buggy like that. I've done some testing with protect, masterprotect and other related commands to see what kinds of damage get through and ... honestly, it's just a mess. Besides, it doesn't make much sense to me that it would make someone INVULNERABLE. Damage resistance? Sure.
Also, the immense force drain on usage would be a kick in the teeth to guardians. It wouldn't remove its useless nature in saber or force spars. If someone has to drop all of their Force to use rage, doesn't matter if they're invincible - you can just jump up on some mildly high ledge and laugh at the person stuck with no Force and draining health.
Otherwise, looks fine to me.
Also, the immense force drain on usage would be a kick in the teeth to guardians. It wouldn't remove its useless nature in saber or force spars. If someone has to drop all of their Force to use rage, doesn't matter if they're invincible - you can just jump up on some mildly high ledge and laugh at the person stuck with no Force and draining health.
Otherwise, looks fine to me.
If you never want to spar, just get Storm 4-5, keeps all the crazies away.
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Amoné Fayden
- Lost One
- Posts: 1159
- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:55 am
- Location: Rori
Re: Force Power Updates
As several know, this is how I have always viewed it. I never refer to it as "Fury" in an RP sense, nor do I acknowledge it as a specific power in it's own right.Aslyn wrote: First off, let's change the animation colour. Red's very...Dark, and it could very easily be considered a Light-Side ability if RPed properly, in the same vein as acceleration (hence, physical enhancement via the Force), but taking a physical toll on the user due to the level of energy they are required to channel (Force Exhaustion...). Blue would be the usual colour, I'd imagine...
However, as somebody gearing towards taking it at some point, I do not support it granting invulnerability.
Tomoran also makes a good point about it having too much of a drawback with the Force sink.
In regards to the colour, it doesn't offend me in it's current state and I don't find the "Blue vs Red" as a good way of categorizing "Good vs Evil". Red's a colour. A nice one! It would be a shame to further insitgate a "Red = Evil" association as we have many red-sabered members etc.
In the end it's an effect unique to the power much like green for Protect or Blue for Absorb. It's an OOC indication of what the player is using. If we were to be RP-heavy, there would be NO effects or colours at all.
With all that said, i'm totally in agreement with "Fury" being less associated as a Dark Side power.
As for the numerical changes, it would be good to see them in comparison to what we currently have.
All I can see in the RPmod information booth is:
Rage (Fury) - still to be done
BaseJKA
BaseJKA
BaseJKA
Same as level 3
Same as level 3
Is there some other place on the forums where the percecntages are shown?
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Aslyn Denethorn
- Lost One
- Posts: 2538
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 12:07 am
- Location: One with the Force
Well, I'm not 100% sure what Fury does, but it does grant technical invulnerability, since you can't die under it's effects. That said, since your HP diminishes as the ability remains active, perhaps just instituting the HP cut-off would do the job: you can't die while under the effects, but you can be hurt (so, perhaps a damage reduction applied instead, but less than Protect?), and once your HP hits 50, the ability shuts itself off and that's that.
Might make it one of those skills that's a last-ditch, all-out effort, something you'd use in an emergency, perhaps. So perhaps:
Level 1: Maximum immediate FP drain (so, straight to 0), no FP regen, -4 HP loss per second. 10% Damage Reduction, attack and movement speed accelerated by 25%
Level 2: 75% FP drain, no FP regen, -3 HP loss per second. 15% Damage Reduction, speed increased by 30%
Level 3: 70% FP drain, no FP regen, -3 HP loss per second. 20% Damage Reduction, speed increased by 35%
Level 4: 60% FP drain, 150m/s FP regen (or whatever we set for low-level Sentinel), -2 HP loss per second. 25% Damage Reduction, speed +40%
Level 5: 50% FP drain, 130m/s FP regen, -2 HP loss per second, 30% Damage Reduction, speed +45%
As for the colour, yeah, fair enough, Amoné. The red can be pretty fetching, but again, most of JKA's Dark Side representations are the same colour, so just thought it might help people associate it differently if the colour were changed.
Might make it one of those skills that's a last-ditch, all-out effort, something you'd use in an emergency, perhaps. So perhaps:
Level 1: Maximum immediate FP drain (so, straight to 0), no FP regen, -4 HP loss per second. 10% Damage Reduction, attack and movement speed accelerated by 25%
Level 2: 75% FP drain, no FP regen, -3 HP loss per second. 15% Damage Reduction, speed increased by 30%
Level 3: 70% FP drain, no FP regen, -3 HP loss per second. 20% Damage Reduction, speed increased by 35%
Level 4: 60% FP drain, 150m/s FP regen (or whatever we set for low-level Sentinel), -2 HP loss per second. 25% Damage Reduction, speed +40%
Level 5: 50% FP drain, 130m/s FP regen, -2 HP loss per second, 30% Damage Reduction, speed +45%
As for the colour, yeah, fair enough, Amoné. The red can be pretty fetching, but again, most of JKA's Dark Side representations are the same colour, so just thought it might help people associate it differently if the colour were changed.
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Amoné Fayden
- Lost One
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- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:55 am
- Location: Rori
Of course Aslyn and I see what you're saying though I still think the current effect accompanies the power well as it's sparky and well.. "energetic" looking. It suits it!
Anyway!
Pretty colours aside, if it cuts itself off at 50hp with no use after that cap, then it can't really be used as a last-ditch effort which is the best time to use it.
Are you positive you can't be KO'd with it activated?
Couple of things popping into my head:
1) Seeing as it would drain HP/sec, we allow the power to drain a player as low as 5hp left (so they can't suicide). 5HP is the equivalent of a tiny scratch from blue stance. So really, anyone over-using the power enough as to leave themselves with hardly any HP, are open to a 1-hit death afterwards.
2) The duration is a tough one. On one hand you could limit the duration so that period of "nigh-invulnerability" is shorter. On the other hand, you could increase the duration as that would continue to Drain their HP the longer they have it on. A cancel out-period of 5HP would ensure they weren't able to continually cheat death.
3) I see the instant FP drain to 0 as being sensible for level 1 as it's an untapped skill. However I feel having a a FP drain at higher end levels is a bit restrictive seeing as neither Force Speed or Protect have a continual drain when used.
Anyway!
Pretty colours aside, if it cuts itself off at 50hp with no use after that cap, then it can't really be used as a last-ditch effort which is the best time to use it.
Are you positive you can't be KO'd with it activated?
Couple of things popping into my head:
1) Seeing as it would drain HP/sec, we allow the power to drain a player as low as 5hp left (so they can't suicide). 5HP is the equivalent of a tiny scratch from blue stance. So really, anyone over-using the power enough as to leave themselves with hardly any HP, are open to a 1-hit death afterwards.
2) The duration is a tough one. On one hand you could limit the duration so that period of "nigh-invulnerability" is shorter. On the other hand, you could increase the duration as that would continue to Drain their HP the longer they have it on. A cancel out-period of 5HP would ensure they weren't able to continually cheat death.
3) I see the instant FP drain to 0 as being sensible for level 1 as it's an untapped skill. However I feel having a a FP drain at higher end levels is a bit restrictive seeing as neither Force Speed or Protect have a continual drain when used.
Re: Force Power Updates
This was posted by someone (Might have been Delmi since he posts alot of helpful mods)Aslyn wrote:Mind Trick
I've always been a little baffled as to the need for the OOC sounds for thisSo, here are my thoughts:
- No sounds, at any level
Removes the sounds from Mind Trick I believe.
Click me!
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Delmi N'jork
- Jedi Master
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I'm not too keen on the 50% chance, 70% chance thing on Mind Trick to be honest. Nor do I think Rage would make you invulnerable since it's already sapping HP...but I do agree that there should either be no colour or something rather than red...
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Eugen Darkrider
- Lost One
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Color based..
Color palette anyone? Just like in the model customization profile thingy. Add one for the Force powers.
I go on the force tab, press red. All (colored) force powers will have a red tint to it.
I select green, all will have green. ( I see lot of usefulness to that if possible)
As goes for the other force powers. I fully agree on Mind Trick and Sense. And Fury.. Yea, I agree with that also. *thumbs up*
Color palette anyone? Just like in the model customization profile thingy. Add one for the Force powers.
I go on the force tab, press red. All (colored) force powers will have a red tint to it.
I select green, all will have green. ( I see lot of usefulness to that if possible)
As goes for the other force powers. I fully agree on Mind Trick and Sense. And Fury.. Yea, I agree with that also. *thumbs up*
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Rash Loist
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Sebastin Creed
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I like these ideas Aslyn, good stuff.
I was always of the mind that level 1-2 Sense, we should remove the whole silhouette of others or at least reduce the range in which you can see them. I understand that each level has to counter act the Mind Trick of the same level, but the whole standing at a wall and seeing a long way into the distances was something I thought could do with a change up, make it more challenging, sensible - whatever. Just a thought!
I was always of the mind that level 1-2 Sense, we should remove the whole silhouette of others or at least reduce the range in which you can see them. I understand that each level has to counter act the Mind Trick of the same level, but the whole standing at a wall and seeing a long way into the distances was something I thought could do with a change up, make it more challenging, sensible - whatever. Just a thought!
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Amoné Fayden
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Serris K'Ral
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Re: Force Power Updates
I like having the sounds, some people tend to use mind-trick for stupid reasons especially when they have no real reason to use it inside the temple. If you really want to avoid someone, just ignore them or be blunt about it. Sounds indicate someone is trying to be mess around, I'd rather have an indication than having sense on all the time imo.Elu Dako wrote:This was posted by someone (Might have been Delmi since he posts alot of helpful mods)Aslyn wrote:Mind Trick
I've always been a little baffled as to the need for the OOC sounds for thisSo, here are my thoughts:
- No sounds, at any level
Removes the sounds from Mind Trick I believe.
Click me!
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"Choosing inaction as a philosophy is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation" - Jedi Master Quell.
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Sai Akiada
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The only suggestion that I don't like is the removal of sounds from MT. The rest I'm undecided on.
I'd happily see the sound chaged to something more subtle but to me, hearing the sound was an indication of someone new to the ability trying to manipulate me. A form of sensing the attempted manipulation. When you get more advanced in the skill, the detection levels drop. (ie, no sound.)
Personally, I'd rather keep sound involved with the lower levels BUT change the sound to be something a little more subtle.
I'd happily see the sound chaged to something more subtle but to me, hearing the sound was an indication of someone new to the ability trying to manipulate me. A form of sensing the attempted manipulation. When you get more advanced in the skill, the detection levels drop. (ie, no sound.)
Personally, I'd rather keep sound involved with the lower levels BUT change the sound to be something a little more subtle.
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