It's been posted before, but Class Suggestion + Poll

[Imil C. Ucindus]

Seen a few of these threads and there's always been one essential part that has been missing, unless I've missed it myself, and that is Soh's actual comments and views on altering/removing/replacing the system and all things related. That's slightly why these threads keep appearing, no solid no or yes or feedback, which I think is needed at this point.

By popular demand, here come Soh's comments and views on altering/removing/replacing the system and all things related.

I would rather avoid seeing the classes system discarded completely, but I have also always lacked interest in improving it myself. You may have noticed I didn't create the original classes we used (made by Axem) and their subsequent revision (by Corinth) still in use today.

This being said, I am certainly not against improvements contributed by others, and there are indeed a number of threads with suggestions (such as species-oriented classes). The difficulty is finding a system that satisfies enough people, that is balanced/fair, not too restrictive, and not too complicated. If someone takes his/her idea far enough to have support from a significant part of the clan, then a formal proposition could be made to the Council for approval (as this is more of a clan policy than anything else).

As far as I remember, nobody has gone far enough to put a formal proposition forward... but that may also be due to my lack of comments on the subject, I admit. If you believe in your idea, you should come to us once it's ready to expose it and demonstrate why it would be a good change for the clan.

Finally, I think I already mentioned it somewhere but I will reiterate: the actual implementation of new classes can be made by anyone, as their definition is stored in a simple text file available here (right-click and "save as" if something as stupid as Quicktime tries to read it... then open it in notepad). Of course this supposes the proposal doesn't require any new feature. If it does, check with me beforehand to know if it's possible or not.

[Elu Dako]

So changing the classes would also mean redoing the entire forcetemplatemax for each level, seems like alot of work to do
It also means redoing the maxforce, maxhealth and forceregentime for each level accordingly, and as force that it may mean altering the cost to purchase powers because of the changes, alot of work.

When I look at it in the format shown in the document Soh pointed out I think it looks alright as it is.

[Tomoran]

Numbers aren't hard to do. Making up classes is easy. Making them all equally good choices is much harder to do.

[Tomoran]

I'm working with the classes.dat file to come up with a suggestion for a change to the class system.

To anybody else who is interested in coming up with suggestions, here's the "Code" for the Forcetemplatemax line.

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQR

Force Jump B
Force Push D
Force Pull E
Force Speed C
Force Sense O

Force Absorb K
Force Heal A
Force Protect J
Mind Trick F
Heal Others L

Force Grip G
Drain N
Lightning H
Rage I
Meld M

Saber Offense P
Saber Defense Q
Saber Throw R

[Zeak Dystiny]

Ahah! Thanks for replying Soh :happy: Guess that'll give various people something to chew on now.

[Tomoran]

I've already got most of the details worked out, going to make the classes.dat file so that nobody asks if it is possible or not and then post the proposal for others to judge.

[Sebastin Creed]

Looking forward too it Tomoran, which 'Suggestion' are you working with because if I remember correctly you came up with a few different ideas?

[Sebastin Creed]

Sorry for double posting.

If you are going to work more on some of those proposals you made Tomoran, I'm still very much in favour of your second (with the expansion on classes and a skill tree sort of thing).

[Amoné Fayden]

So long as no Force power is flat out restricted based on class as that could prove very unfair for people wanting to form a unique template.

You also have to keep in mind, when making these changes, that people have already assigned XP to Force Powers and dramatically changing the templates will result in people "Forgetting" (losing) Force Powers because the XP allocation has changed.

Ret-conning sucks, especially for RP.

Looking forward to seeing any finished suggestions but please, be gentle.

[Sebastin Creed]

Well, I understand the ideal behind that view buddy I really do and I'm all for having something unique. However, I feel that what we have leaves space for people to venture into every single power currently open to them at a certain level when realistically (in my opinion) should shouldn't *really* be able too... I don't think the process of learning is tough enough and could perhaps do with some restrictions as well as a new guide line for mentors and students alike (Because I agree, all of us need to do our "Jobs").

Though, the multi-class proposal Tomoran made did leave most of the powers open to us it just limited the how high and how "Specialized" one could be on that power/area - which I think is realistic and promotes variety and Character considerations. All we need to do now is make it a system which has steady progression based on activity and a revamp of some of the other things (classes, activities and the launch of the stories we have lined up) to try bring back that incentive and enjoyment in "meaningful" RP.

Alas, it's like you said - it's all down to the individual just as much as this system. I just think that this idea suits the purposes of helping realistic progression and specializing in areas... sort of like WoW, you could pick a Class and then work the tree to create the sort of Character you wanted.

Except this time it's all role played.

[Amoné Fayden]

Though, the multi-class proposal Tomoran made did leave most of the powers open to us it just limited the how high and how "Specialized" one could be on that power/area

This is fine.


I just strongly disagree with a system such as:

"You took Protect so now you can't take Speed, Throw, or Storm."

Because you're just going to have 2-3 paths which you have to chose from and people are going to end up with the exact same template as somebody else which is a little depressing. I'd rather not have somebody dictate which power negates another. That should be player/character controlled.

I'd much rather have something like Oblivion where you can learn everything (if you feel that you need to) but only specialize (beyond level 3) in a few. It's just figuring out a way so that certain powers don't lock out others.

It's a shame really because our current system would be perfect in terms of path choice. It's just people often have a hard time saying "no" to themselves and can't seem to downplay their character's abilities. Especially when you have XP burning a hole in your pocket tempting you to spend it.

Let's just watch this space and see what Tomoran comes up with.

[Sai Akiada]

It's a shame really because our current system would be perfect in terms of path choice. It's just people often have a hard time saying "no" to themselves and can't seem to downplay their character's abilities. Especially when you have XP burning a hole in your pocket tempting you to spend it.

Personally, this is exactly what I think the current issue is.

With that said, I have no objections to tweaking the settings a little but I don't claim to know a better variation myself. If someone presents a better option, roll with it.

[Azrael]

This is fine.


I just strongly disagree with a system such as:

"You took Protect so now you can't take Speed, Throw, or Storm."

Because you're just going to have 2-3 paths which you have to chose from and people are going to end up with the exact same template as somebody else which is a little depressing. I'd rather not have somebody dictate which power negates another. That should be player/character controlled.

I'd much rather have something like Oblivion where you can learn everything (if you feel that you need to) but only specialize (beyond level 3) in a few. It's just figuring out a way so that certain powers don't lock out others.

It's a shame really because our current system would be perfect in terms of path choice. It's just people often have a hard time saying "no" to themselves and can't seem to downplay their character's abilities. Especially when you have XP burning a hole in your pocket tempting you to spend it.

This is actually something i spent the better part of yesterday going over and revising. Not sure if Sebastin eventually understood it when i tried to explain most of it to him, but he might have.
I'll talk to Tomoran about it and see what is/isnt possible as to be perfectly frank and honest, i'm not a 'number cruncher' and that usually keeps me out of such things as programming, mapping and such. My brain looks at it and gives a big 'Unnnnnghh...' and leaves it there. Lol. But i'll talk to Tomoran about the whole thing and see what we can come up with. Should be something up within a day or two. Three at the outside.

[Ametha Tasia]

So long as no Force power is flat out restricted based on class as that could prove very unfair for people wanting to form a unique template.

I wouldn't say restricted, but rather limited or made expensive- if there's a class for healers I think it'd be hard for them to master the art of saving people's lives whilst simultaneously learning to unleash massive torrents of lightning from their fingertips! :p

Oh and isn't it possible to make the XP less than the amount needed to purchase all the powers? That would enforce choice-making.

[Amoné Fayden]

if there's a class for healers I think it'd be hard for them to master the art of saving people's lives whilst simultaneously learning to unleash massive torrents of lightning from their fingertips! :p

I know what you're saying and agree to a certain extent.
However, I'd say "why not?".
What's to say somebody cannot learn Storm and Heal Other?
Who decides that?

What I will agree with though, is that something needs to give in exchange.
Definitely.
I'd just rather be the one to decide that "exchange" rather than a system somebody created.

So say a person wants to be (for the lack of a beter term...) "Battle Mage".
They should be able to learn a mixture of offensive Force Powers and Physical combat abilities without having the system saying:
"Ah-ah-ah! You took Storm so no Offence or Deffense 3 for you! Ha ha!"

But it's all in the development stage right now and it's going to be hard to please everyone but I'm not going to jump on something before it's done.
Just putting forward a few thoughts to consider.