Offensive abilities

[Cyril Feraan]

This is a very vague suggestion, but it might be interesting to see more offensive abilities implemented into RPmod. I'm not sure what or how, but if they were there, people might not rely on Force Storm to attack with the Force (other than high level Hold, this is currently the only real way).

[Nivek Tholmai]

"The force is used for knowledge and defense, never attack"

[Vantus]

I get your meaning Cyril but in the end, if there is a new force power added, even an offensive one, people will use it. Then you'd have people over-using it needlessly.

A round-about example would be like what happened in Star Wars Galaxies. They released 2 new races with the expansion - Sullustan and Ithorian. Before you knew it, the galaxy consisted almost entirely of Sullustans and Ithorians.

People like new things. Too much.
If there ever were new offensive force powers, i'd suggest putting a high XP requirement on them to prevent every Tom, Dick and Harry wanting their master to teach them it.

Simply my opinion as always.

[Cyril Feraan]

To expound on my comment, I mainly say this because Force Storm is such a lame and unrealistic attack. But if you simply ban it totally from JEDI (outside of enemy characters), then you'll find there will be a hole in the Force template, even as I agree with what you said Nivek. Even though Jedi *should* not do something, doesn't mean there shouldn't be that option. For example, if you have level 3 Hold, and smash someone into a wall, it does nothing at all. Without anything nasty to deter people, powers such as absorb have less point.

[Arikakon Genkal]

To expound on my comment, I mainly say this because Force Storm is such a lame and unrealistic attack.

I agree, and there should be more "realistic, accepted, Jedi-like" powers, that WOULD cost more XP to learn, but still, as I said, be more realistic. Examples (I'm getting these from the High Level Force Powers mod for KotOR2, which has many CANON powers): Freeze, Sleep, Blind, Confusion (Confusion's probably not implementable except through the RP.) Sleep should probably be made into a power as well as an admin effect, only with a timer, FP cost, etc. Blind would probably be the hardest to implement, since it would involve (probably) making an opponent's screen go black, and so might as well just be RPd out. And Freeze could just be an altered Lightning (different effects, I know there are mods out there) with a temporary "animation freeze" effect (Ever gone into the water and decided to kick something? Would that be possible to implement?)

[Syrena Exan]

This COULD be easily solved with rp spars. Theres nothing to stop you from rping new powers.

[Cyril Feraan]

This COULD be easily solved with rp spars. Theres nothing to stop you from rping new powers.

Precisely so, and you make a good point.

As it is, Storm still provides a quick fix. There is a difference between a real action and an ::action::, in that real actions are usually more dynamic. Therefore people will have a tendency to revert to whatever is there and quickly available. This is normal and everyone does it, which is why I suggested some incorporated features to use alongside with ::actions::. Call it gratifying if you will, and while I think it'd be nice to see such 'RPed powers' but I think that most people would rather actually see things happen in-game. I don't challenge that it has a certain satisfaction, yes, so that's why I said this.

The main issue with RPing powers is when someone decides to RP a power that they really shouldn't. I can't think of a solution to this, let me know.

In any case, what I'm getting at here is something that most people can agree with: whatever you do about offensive Force powers or rping Force powers, I think there should be no more casual 'zapping' in casual sparring. Jedi are strong, but not strong enough to take that kind of daily abuse, whether they are the one getting hit, or using the power itself.

[Jared]

Storm really shouldn't be used in casual spars - unless the two sparring happen to be Knights that absolutely trust each other and are going at it full Force to keep themselves sharp. As for Storm's place in Jedi...

Storm at level 1 or 2 is a world away from 'Force Lightning' as used by Palpetine. Consequently it can be used to aid 'Absorb' training. That said, it's still a tricky power to master both due to it's technical requirements, and it's 'Dark' side effects.

I personally think that Storm's overuse stems simply from its cool factor, rather than its offensive nature. The more avid RP-ers among us that applied xp to Storm did so as part of a lengthy process, either being taught the ability by our Masters or going through a viable RP situation to acquire it.

Using level 4 Storm against anyone below Knight level is pretty much Sadistic... but then isn't using a full frequency Saber?

The question you have to ask yourself, is why do I need more offensive Force powers if I'm only going to use them to spar fellow Jedi?

In the context of a Mission, push, pull, hold, mind tricking/cloak can be devastatingly effective against non force sensitives. Level 4 storm on the other hand can knock down multiple opponents (as can higher levels of push). It's use would realistically be used as a trump card or last resort in situations where for SOME reason the Jedi had to take down multiple enemies without considering their lives.

To consider an alternative to Storm, consider the function of the ability. If you want a ranged attack, learn Saber Throw. If you want to suppress multiple opponents use push (and its higher levels) and RP pinning someone with the Force. There are plenty more solutions and alternatives, but I don't think an experienced Consular that actively RP's learning and investigating storm with the relevant approval should be questioned when using it, unless they are attacking children or individuals unequipped to defend against it.

The main issue with RPing powers is when someone decides to RP a power that they really shouldn't. I can't think of a solution to this, let me know.

We have to set the example, and we have to trust each other. I can't think of a time when someone has RP'd an inappropriate ability and gone unquestioned. And as for overzealous knights teaching advanced abilities to initiates, people have made mistakes from time to time, but these situations are dealt with.

On a side note, relating to Absorb:
'Absorb' absorbs any incoming Force energy, push, pull, hold and storm.
I think it's tactical advantages are pretty clear.

[Vantus]

I see exactly what Cyril is saying.

Sometimes when you want to RP a power which would naturally be a fast, action-packed ability, the last thing you want to do is sit and type it out in the middle of a spar, showing a chat bubble above your head for 20 seconds or so.

Plus, RPing an ability often makes it too easy for the other person to swipe it off like it was nothing, after all the effort and imagination you put into it. A counter-arguement would also be that JEDI discourages dictating RP on others. (Example: ::He chokes the initiate, rendering him into a coma:: )

However, when you activate an ability using the game engine, it's far less acceptable for the other person to ignore it and it forces a reaction.

An idea (again i say "idea") would be to add "special effects" powers.
Powers that trigger an animation, yet do nothing to other players.
A storm effect without the damage, for example.

"what good is that?" you might ask. Well:
1) it gives the "physical" stimulation we sometimes need.
2) It wont be exploitable (for use in laming)
3) It would be near impossible to have an animation for EVERY canonical force power but at least it would hinder people from RPing fluke powers that they really shouldn't have when there is an actual animation waiting for them to "learn".

[Jamus Kevari]

I think what we need are "cooler" Lightside powers.

For example, I think that there can be Lightside versions of Force Storm and Force Slow. The lightside Force Storm would still have a ranged electrical attack, but instead of creating moderate damage on the target, the attack would create very minimal damage, but also paralyze the target, as the electric pulse gun does. Also, perhaps some of the target's Force pool could be dropped in higher levels for a "stronger" effect.

Force Slow could become a Lightside power, if it can actually be made to make the target slow down. The attack would look similar to what it already is, but when the attack makes contact with the target, it makes the target move around sluggishly, much like what happens after one uses Force Fury/Rage. There could be a Darkside attack called Force Drain that would act like Force Slow is now, except perhaps on higher levels the user can take a bit of HP from the target as well.

I would also advocate including a Force Choke ability. This power would act just like Grip does in baseJKA, (if you're unfamiliar with the power's abilities, you can try it out in single player mode) with higher levels increasing in damage/duration. The catch is, though, that one could not levitate objects like one can do with Force Hold. Only against living targets will the grip or levitation work, instead of a larger range of most objects like droids or other NPCs. Force Hold could be improved upon in higher levels by making it available to lift many objects at once, or a larger range of objects, which could perhaps include vehicles.

[Kavar Starkiller]

I thought the lightside version of Storm/Lightning was Emerald Lightning. Although, that might be the other variant. I'm kind of lost between powers here and there.

[Dixo Xan]

Haven't read the replies to this thread, so excuse me if I repeat already mentioned stuff. I don't have storm in my template. It's a power Dixo has decided to shelf, and a skill he's forgotten, so to say. Thing is, if I want to show muscles in duels using the force the only option is storm. As Cyril said I miss having a few more damage causing powers. I have level 5 hold, but really it is to weak. Thats another matter (plzplpzpzl turn up the damage or add an effect to grip 5 though?). Stuff can be RPed, of course, which I also do but as Cyril said it would be nice with some twists or new powers that would make for other template choices.

[Jamus Kevari]

Grip needs to be turned up, as I've witnessed Dixo using his Hold 5, and it has a shorter duration than Hold 3. The damage is not quite intimidating, either. I would suggest improvements to Hold 4 and up, or simply make a whole new power of Force Choke/Grip, rather than making it a higher form of Hold.

[Ergo Stomi]

Making high level push/pull (4/5) do damage if done into a wall or does a knock down, would be a way of expanding offensive powers.

[Asrelia Mhy]

A new "core ability" Force power which for template reasons will be called "Force Spear".

This new ability will maintain the animation (how your character will stand while performing it) of "saber-up" lightning, making it one handed. The effect will be the same as the Push and Pull bubbles around the "caster's" hand, and the victim will have the same "telekinetic moved" effect. Force Spear will only affect a small lateral "tunnel" area around the cross-hair, as Lightning level 2 does. The damaging effect will be the same as grip, only instantaneous, not to be confused with the choke animation.

The level damage and energy cost is as follows:

• Level 1: damage 15 - energy cost 30
• Level 2: damage 20 - energy cost 40
• Level 3: damage 25 - energy cost 50
• Level 4: damage 35 - energy cost 60
• Level 5: damage 50 - energy cost 70
  
  Note: there will also be a 3-5 second "recoil" to counter spamming.

The RP aspect of it is that Force Spear is related to telekinetic powers: push, pull, and hold. Essentially its moving the molecules at point A to point B very fast, much like an air compressor, only not on such a condensed scale.

I believe this alleviates the issues that Push and Pull doing damage provides, considering the area affected by those powers, and also the unrealistically large amount of Force Storm users.

This is assuming Soh is capable and willing to create a new power.