Lightsaber Lock - Fruitless?

Vantus · Post by **Vantus** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:29 am

This came to me as I watched Kaelen spar Alkur the other day.
I'm not sure what the general reaction is going to be to this but here goes...

When two sabers lock and each player undergoes that exhilarating flurry of rapid left clicks to try best their oponent in the tussle, why-oh-why can the looser just step right out of it as if no saber lock took place?

I'm sure all of you who have ever won a saber lock feel the same way. Why after all that effort to beat them, do they get to jump away instantly while your character performs the forced animation of the vistory slash.

I propose that the looser of a Lightsaber-lock has a 3-4 second stun time so that the rightfull winner may land the blow that they deserve.

Although saber locks generally do look good and theyre still exciting, there isn't much reason to really try, seeing as both players will just instantly start moving as soon as the lock animation is over.

I know a lot of you elitists out there that actually like Saber locks in their current state will say that, realistically, people could always dodge or roll after losing to avoid the swing. However, for a game element, wouldn't it be more exciting if saber locks could mean your defeat if you actually lose them?

Thoughts?

Indilia Von · Post by **Indilia Von** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:51 am

From my View.
1.if it would allow like you said, there would be no students left more or less, or we would been needed to go to training settings in each spar.
yeah..
that's my only reason against it.

Atrux Nuro · Post by **Atrux Nuro** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:24 am

Why not have them force into the kneel stance or something instead? or knocked down. Or you could just get rid of the victory slash. But if it's not already integrated, have some kind of level penalty...like saber Defense.

But all in all I don't see anything against it. You could also just speed up that one animation, if you can. That way it's harder to dodge and if you miss, you aren't stuck there for so long swinging at nothing and making yourself more vulnerable to a lunge, DFA or something worse.

Gabe Alkorda · Post by **Gabe Alkorda** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:12 am

lol i always get hit by saber locks and it usually spells my defeat... but i *do* suck.. i dunno about this though, like you said some people would say... it seems realistic to be able to dodge them, and it doesn't seem quite fair to turn saber locks into a 1-hit-kill thing...

Alkur Tekeil · Post by **Alkur Tekeil** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:00 pm

Personally, I wish that saber locks required more than rapid-fire clicking. I think it'd be neat if you could use the ASDW directional keys to position yourself or something. The straightforwardness of saber locks makes it difficult to get out of the mindset of "ZOMG RPD CLIX!", because I would rather it takes a bit longer than 2 seconds.

Vantus · Post by **Vantus** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:30 pm

Indilia Von wrote:From my View.
1.if it would allow like you said, there would be no students left more or less, or we would been needed to go to training settings in each spar.

You're saying when sparring initiates, as Jedi we should use full-frequency sabers? Technically, sparring with full frequency saber AT ALL would result in no more student left. What's the difference between being taken down by a Saber-lock defeat than say - a Lunge to the face?

Sorry maybe that was my fault for not explaining it in the best way.

When I said "Landing the blow they deserve" and "Saber locks could mean your defeat if you actually lose", I didn't mean that the winner instantly KO's their oponent.

I meant that the loser of the saber-lock has to be stunned long enough for the finishing attack animation to actually land a few hits before he can move again and fight back.

I didn't mean as dramatic as saber lock = instant death to the loser.

I just dont feel there is any reward in winning the tussle if the other person can slink off like nothing happened. Besides, the winner is actually at the disadvantage seeing as they get stuck performing the finishing "kata" as it were, while the loser can walk and slash freely.

In short - I'd like it to be more like Base JKA. (Single Player)

Yon Vash · Post by **Yon Vash** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:10 pm

SO, what if winning the lock knocked the saber away from your enemy/partner? Would that be a bit better? It would give the winner a CHANCE to strike ((in the cases of intense training between a master and Padawan)) or give the looser a chance to yield and adhere to the loss. Letâ€™s face it, sometimes surrender is the most acceptable course of action.

Ergo Stomi · Post by **Ergo Stomi** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:58 pm

Most of the locks land if you win. And a good portion of them do quite a bit of damage when they hit. I understand your point, but I see nothing that needs to be changed, as they're pretty effective now.

Vantus · Post by **Vantus** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:22 pm

Ergo Stomi wrote:Most of the locks land if you win.

There's DEFINITELY something i'm doing wrong then because i've never had a saber-lock do anything other than stop me in my tracks while the person I just bested darts at me with a lunge.

I just think some sort of penalty for being the losing party would make saber-locks more worthwhile.

I liked Yon's idea about dropping the saber. There's not need to over-dramatise the event. I'm not suggesting one falls down like a hapless rabbit. Just something that temporarily stops the loser from instantly running/rolling away.

Another suggestion would be the "Rebound" effect you have when a person in Red stance hits a person in Blue stance. They fumble back for a few moments and are unable to attack. Even that would be better.

Rash Loist · Post by **Rash Loist** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:29 pm

I agree with Alkur, I think a direction or attack key should pop up and you have to hit that key before the other can.

Jamus Kevari · Post by **Jamus Kevari** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:42 pm

I remember JK2 MP (or at least a mod I played in) had the person you defeated in a lock be thrown back a couple meters. This could be a possible substitution, but I prefer locks how they are presently.

Cyril Feraan · Post by **Cyril Feraan** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:30 am

One possible concern is that saber locks are quite easy to win (regardless of saber XP spent) if you know how to adjust your mouse properly. Could a moderate penalty to the loser be abused?

Otherwise, I quite agree, though I find it's not always easy to dodge when you're the loser of the lock.

Yrael Grekkis · Post by **Yrael Grekkis** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:09 am

Don't know if it's possible, but saber locking an Initiate vrs a Master, and the Initiate possibly winning would be bad. Don't know, never tried. hehe

Jamus Kevari · Post by **Jamus Kevari** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:29 am

Can possibly make the level of Saber Defense more of a deciding factor.

Phoe Nhix · Post by **Phoe Nhix** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:57 am

Jamus' idea is definitely my favorite.

Still if a Knight or a Master was to win a saber lock against an initiate ( eventhough they would rarely spar together) I don't think they would slash the youngling but rather push them on the ground.

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Lightsaber Lock - Fruitless?

Lightsaber Lock - Fruitless?