[DONE] Mind Trick/Illusions

[Jared]

Mind tricking is a very context dependant ability.

If we assume that "Mind tricking" is literally tricking the mind, then the sound should stay. If a youngling attempted to mind trick me, it wouldn't work. Same goes for anyone trying to mind trick a Falleen like Syrena. Thus the sound represents that little force peak a Jedi would feel when someone nearby is focusing on the Force/using it. This is a canonical effect and highly documented.

On the other hand, if "Mind tricking" is actually a form of cloaking it's a whole different kettle of fish, in which case 1: It should be made a tougher ability. 2: It should be renamed.

I personally think that higher levels of Mind tricking, eg: 4 and 5 should require a higher level of sense to break (and fingers crossed this is in the works) - perhaps an addition though, code These higher levels server side to make no sound.

However, here's a thought: If someone mind tricks you and you're a kid and they are a knight +, unless you have some latent species trait, it's probably going to work. So let it go rather than breaking the RP.

One more idea: Need to sneak past people for whatever reason? - sneak past them. Don't use a force power to do so.

Remember that mind trick is highly effective even at low levels against non Jedi and NPC's. People have a preoccupation with using the Force on one another just because they can.

[Aslyn Denethorn]

Jared,

I agree with you to a certain extent, but I would first observe that Jedi only tended to detect such use because they possessed Force-based senses - hence, literally the equivalent of the Force Sense ability, the only difference being the the system employed by JA dictates that this is an active process, not a passive one (as though one has to stop and concentrate for it to be effective).

If we were to maintain that particular approach, one of two things would probably need to happen:

a) The dynamics of the Mind Trick itself would be changed, such that it operated differently to the standard system built into the game.

b) A Jedi possessing a high level in Force Sense would either prove immune to Jedi Mind Trick after a certain level, or would have it passively active (sans the effects around a person that usually highlight them in the Force) on a permanent basis, such that someone using a Mind Trick in the traditional sense would still be visible.

I do agree with you to a certain extent, but I don't think it's true that training in the use of the Force naturally dictates that you can pierce illusions automatically, or become immune to their use because of your skills. Invariably, it strikes me as a trained skill, not an automatic right.

[Aayla Vigil]

My thought is to put a switcher that allows you to turn on and off force sounds for: sense, mindtrick, heal, absorb, speed.

Or if this can't be done, as far as the mod isn't upgraded to have mindtrick ability with a more realistic dynamic (IE: level 1-2 mind trick won't work on a Jedi Knight/Master), it would be very appreciated to have at least the "force sense" sound removed. It's really annoying and so useless.

[Aslyn Denethorn]

You're right about Force Sense, Aayla. I guess the sound for that one is as redundant as the one for the Mind Trick, all things considered. Good call.

[Cyril Feraan]

Here is what I think:

I believe there is excellent incentive to remove the sounds for sense and mind trick, though speed I could go either way on.

As Jared stated, if we call it "Mind Trick" I would leave the sound, but I raise open doubts to whether it is really Mind Trick, as has been argued by people previously, it seems like more of a Force cloaking ability, whereas the Jedi mind trick would be RPed with words and actions. Let us bear in mind that the mind trick was for the "weak-minded" and in this case, it mostly means that older Jedi would be able to do it on younger Jedi if it WAS called Mind Trick (and then one has to think: why would an elder Jedi ever do that to another?)

Anyway, it seems to me that, whatever it is called, it would seem to be used most appropriately only during sparring or training situations (Cloaking more so than Mind Trick). Use of either the Jedi Mind Trick or Force Cloaking seems sort of weird otherwise -- why would a Jedi go sneaking around or affecting the minds of their companions?

Also, like Jared said, there could be some discretion involved as a "solution". If you should not mind trick/sense, then simply don't.

I do believe that making the higher levels of the "Mind Trick" ability immune to lower levels of Sense is on the way.

That about sums up my thoughts.

[Syrena Exan]

I suggested this before and was told "no".

[Soh Raun]

My general feeling about Force sounds/effects is that they are OOC gameplay feedback, but not necessarily IC "feelings" or sounds.

Therefore, I consider the abuse of Force Sense to be a behaviour problem: the player hears it, but the character shouldn't react to it if he's unlikely to detect it (for example, when a Knight/Master uses Mind Trick). So in this precise case you shouldn't automatically use Sense as soon as you hear the Mind Trick sound.

However, here is what I propose:

• Keep the Mind Trick sound for levels 1, 2 and 3, but remove it for levels 4 and 5.
• Only break Mind Trick if you have a greater or equal Force Sense level (already done in 0.4.0)
• Make the Force Sense sound client-only, i.e. only the person using it will hear it (thus making it purely gameplay feedback). Currently there is no way of doing this (sounds are broadcasted to everyone), but I'll try to find one rather than removing the sound completely.
• Concerning other powers, I don't see a need to remove their sounds. Most of them are short and not as annoying as the original BaseJKA ones (since they are now the KOTOR ones), and there is no loop anymore for Sense and Speed. I do believe that having OOC feedback about powers used around you can be useful - and Phoe usually uses that for his very first lesson about the Force
• If you really want to remove them, make or use a custom mod that replaces these sounds with "null" sound files. There is no easy/proper way to toggle these sounds client-side programmatically (as previously mentioned, sounds are broadcasted).
• Finally, I think it makes sense to rename Mind Trick to Force Cloak.

What do you think?

[Raltharon Damara]

Soh. It's just this sort of awesomeness that makes people love you.

[Moza Ferorn]

Sounds nice.

[Aslyn Denethorn]

Sounds good to me. Makes a lot of sense, actually.

[Yon Vash]

Outstanding work.

[Iverian Prey]

Very nice.

[Jared]

[Indilia Von]

I love it

[Ctathos]

Cloak FTW, as long as 0.4 is released this week.