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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:58 am
by Aslyn Denethorn
Again, how many Guardians do you know that are going to spam those special moves to the extent that they run out of FP without recharge? The only way you could is by chaining 3-4 specials all at once, and frankly most of the Guardians I know aren't quite that reliant on the specials to defeat an opponent.
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:39 am
by Vantus
It's not a matter of spamming or chaining moves, it's about not having adequate Force Points to perform a Non-Force move.
I have a total of 97 Force Points.
If I wait until they are fully charged, (which seems like an eternity in a spar when i'm jumping to evade etc!) I can Manage 1 full jump and 1 Kata and i'm empty.
Combine that with a slow FP regen along with the assortment of other Force Powers like Speed and Protect.
It's very inhibiting.
Anyway, it's quite obvious this one is going to sink. It was nice keeping it bobbing up and down in the water for a bit though.
Go Guardian awareness group!
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:47 am
by Aslyn Denethorn
I agree, but tbh, the FP and regen is about the only thing Consulars have going for them - the earlier ability access, though seemingly reasonable, is in itself not a major advantage, since the XP needed to buy into said abilities isn't oft available until you reach the higher ranks anyway, and by that point, those same skills are often open to Guardians and Sentinels, too. If you drop the FP cost on the saber skills, you put Guardians and Sentinels at a bigger advantage, and just once again cut into the singular advantage possessed by the Consular class.
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:43 am
by Chrundom
Everyone complains about spam like it's the end of a the world, When someone spams, it gives the other person the chance to see through there defenses, and in time skill SHOULD over power the spam.
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:36 am
by Zeak Dystiny
They shouldn't be using the move over and over in the first place.
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:16 pm
by Nivek Tholmai
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My personal thoughts: Removing the FP sounds fair enough for some of the special moves. And rather than worrying that someone is going to spam them to death... Well how about we trust each other to use the system properly for a change. Whenever something is proposed this seems to be the first thing on most people's lips and I'm pretty tired of it. Please learn to trust each other to use what is implemented sensibly. If something is implemented and someone decides to be a d*** with it, he/she will be dealt with by the admins on sight.
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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:16 pm
by Chrundom
Zeak Dystiny wrote:They shouldn't be using the move over and over in the first place.
That's all I ever see in a saber fight, is sweep sweep sweep, is that not spam. IMO that's just as bad ad Jump kicking constantly, but that's my humble opinion.
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:56 pm
by Zeak Dystiny
In the saber fights I see here it's not all sweep sweep sweep and 'flailing'. I see variety. Regardless, we are talking about katas and special moves here.
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:04 pm
by Alkur Tekeil
If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:20 am
by Drasli Khaar
Zeak Dystiny wrote:In the saber fights I see here it's not all sweep sweep sweep and 'flailing'. I see variety. Regardless, we are talking about katas and special moves here.
indeed, we dont want to go off topic. roll stabs i think should not take any force because it is in fact a move one could do easily without needing the force. A Mandalorian warrior could pull it off, and one such as them are built and can do it over and over again, its what they're trained for. But sides of this conflict have good views, but overall i believe using no force with a roll stab is the better choice.
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:19 am
by Cyril Feraan
Nivek Tholmai wrote:-----------
My personal thoughts: Removing the FP sounds fair enough for some of the special moves. And rather than worrying that someone is going to spam them to death... Well how about we trust each other to use the system properly for a change. Whenever something is proposed this seems to be the first thing on most people's lips and I'm pretty tired of it. Please learn to trust each other to use what is implemented sensibly. If something is implemented and someone decides to be a d*** with it, he/she will be dealt with by the admins on sight.
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I concur completely. It's fine as is, but it is a logical enough suggestion, so I wouldn't mind changing it. If abuse occurs with any suggestion, there IS an administrative system in place to help deal with it in the most appropriate way possible. I also should hope that we trust and respect each other more than what I've seen implied in this thread. Issues like the combat system and differences between Jedi classes can become heated, but should not be a source for so much contention.
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:36 pm
by Delmi N'jork
I feel like this is a community based upon trust and fairness. I think people know not to spam a move like that.
Like I said, there are certain moves that make sense to use the force (yellow and red jump attacks, the staff and duel butterfly attacks) but the roll stab, the blue lunge, and the single kata's really don't make much sense in my eyes. Really, anyone could do those moves.
Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:08 pm
by Ametha Tasia
Well, those moves get greater damage than your usuall swing...Why not say that they are force assisted ? The kata maybe a set of quick attacks fueled by the force, no ? (Like speed + combo) The lunge maybe an attack empowered with the force... And its not an issue of spamming them or not, I mean we are here to roleplay...Spamming conflicts with it and is dealt with even if there is no force penalty...
Maybe they should be much less for Guardians though, while having slow regen of force. The sentinels would have medium cost + regen and the consulars should have a "relatively" big cost cause they don't focus much on saber combat and a really fast force regen time.
*hehe* I can't wait to get a saber !
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:59 am
by Sahio Xekma
This is as old as me!!
The reason why there is a Force cost to these moves is that because it requires upon the Force! Yes, you can roll-stab... try do it with a sword you cannot touch even the slightest? Most Martial Artists actually roll on the flat-edge of their sword during a roll, which doesn't hurt them. Also, real swords are actually flexible... A Lightsaber is all the contrary : it is fixed, and you can't roll on it.
Hence is why you'd need the Force to aid you in not killing yourself in a roll-stab.
Though, I agree a Stamina Bar would be a nice addition, and all moves, running, jumping, would require Stamina. A setting that would be corner stone for the Guardians.
/support
¬ Axem
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:21 am
by Vantus
I often roll in-game without my Lightsaber even ignited. After the roll is finished, I draw the lightsaber into a stab.
I am in no danger of stabbing myself during the roll as my saber is not ignited, yet I am still charged Force Points for the stab at the end once the roll is over and the stab begins.
If JEDI were to have a weapon mod where instead of Lightsabers, we held a biro pen, We would still be charged Force Points. I don't think it has anything to do with the weapon.
There is no way to back up, logically, why Force Powers are required to perform a roll stab.
Any opposition to the removal of FP cost from special moves is going to have to be on an OOC basis in my opinion.