Negative Effects of Dark-Side Powers?

Gabe Alkorda · Post by **Gabe Alkorda** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:46 pm

Several points here....

First, it's well-established that the "Dark" and "Light" sides are not actually sides of the *Force*, but rather, sides of the *user*. As such, it would be faulty to impose restrictions on certain abilities and not on other abilities because of a misconceived notion that bad=taxing while good=no problem.

Second, imposing further restrictions via game mechanics is something I am completely against. I personally would be fine with it, I'm sure. However, I dislike the fact that JEDI is increasingly turning its nose up to those we'd call gamers. Gamers were the backbone of JEDI in the not-so-distant past, and I'd hate to see us snob ourselves away from that audience. Yes, we focus on roleplaying here, but we also focus on Jedi and their practices, some of which are open-mindedness and community. I'll be the first to tell you that I'm not a gamer, but I'll also be the first to tell you that some of the best members JEDI has had over the years have been gamers. Let's not ruin their fun simply because we want to force others to behave in a manner that we want them to.

Third, we shouldn't limit our ability to roleplay by having a game do it for us. One of the main reasons I hate mmos and rpgs is because of the overly critical and rigid mechanics put in place, severely limiting quality roleplay and instead enforcing mediocrity across the board. If someone doesn't do the best job at roleplaying being taxed by Force use, don't just slap them in the face with a stricter set of mechanics, rather set a good example, and perhaps take the time to offer them tips. However, at the end of the day, if they still haven't taken to acting in the way you want them to, tough luck. We can't control anyone but ourselves, and as such, we shouldn't worry about making sure others behave.

Saos Nartu wrote:JEDI is a very strict roleplay server, but it also needs to be fun. I honestly think it would get boring if you didn't roleplay the effects yourself. I think introducing a damage factor would just be a major annoyance to the user.

Well put, young one.

Sasha Raven · Post by **Sasha Raven** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:20 pm

Dark and Light sides are not actually sides of the *Force*, but rather, sides of the user.

Ametha Tasia · Post by **Ametha Tasia** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:22 pm

I think that that point is contested upon within Jedi canon.

Zeak Dystiny · Post by **Zeak Dystiny** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:24 pm

Regardless if there are no 'sides', I would have thought some abilities would hurt the user despite their intentions and such.

Li Andru · Post by **Li Andru** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:25 pm

I do not necessarily agree with what Master Akorda said, except the fact the splitting difference of Force powers. I agree with that.

But, I am not going to argue anything regarding the difference between Gamers and RPrs and such, because that is a way to heated discussion for me.

Aslyn Denethorn · Post by **Aslyn Denethorn** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:27 pm

As do I, but as Ametha points out, that's a massively disputed topic, both in canon and in the clan as a whole. And, despite the presence of the Unifying Force in our canon, we nonetheless still retain the Light and Dark Side, and it's well known that Dark Side powers can cause harm to their users as much to their targets. It's not as clear cut as to wave the Unifying Force philosophy before us and say that the ideas are therefore moot.

Gabe Alkorda · Post by **Gabe Alkorda** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:33 pm

I would venture to say that channeling energy through your hands in the form of lightning would be no different than channeling energy through your hands in the form of a telekinetic push or by absorbing that same lightning or telekinetic push. "Dark Side" abilities would be no less detrimental than "Light Side" abilities. I'm not saying there shouldn't be repercussions, I'm perhaps proposing more repercussions, however I firmly believe that these repercussions should be left up to us as individuals rather than forced upon us.

Ametha Tasia · Post by **Ametha Tasia** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:42 pm

But...shooting lightning through your hands *should* be painful. I mean c'mon man. Sidious was like an ultra lightning spammer and look how hard he aged. How easilly thrown by vader, how barely he could move...and this dude was the great dark lord...I don't see why a master should not be harmed when using this ability.

I think I see your point with regards to keep'n to the rp...but sometimes in the midst of a spar...its difficult to rp things besides falling and dropping your saber. Lightning usage is quite rare too, so I mean a master who has lvl 5 lightning would have no trouble, but a master with level 1, 2 or 3 should suffer some damages. (ofcourse masters with level five suffer penalties but they should be reduced).

Gabe Alkorda · Post by **Gabe Alkorda** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:47 pm

Think of it like this.. You have two wires, one is connected to another conductor, the other is a loose end. Shoot electricity (energy) through both of them, and both will be quite hot, regardless of whether the energy shoots out as lightning or simply continues through. Research the death of Anakin Solo or of Dorsk 81. With enough energy coursing through you, regardless of "side", you will be hurt.

Zeak Dystiny · Post by **Zeak Dystiny** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:48 pm

Concerning Dorsk 81, he also wasn't capable enough to contain such energy surging through him.

Aslyn Denethorn · Post by **Aslyn Denethorn** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:58 pm

The reason it's painful or damaging to the user is because of how that energy is channeled. Jedi use the 'Light Side' for their abilities, or put another way, they approach the Force through passive receptiveness, emptying themselves of self and becoming a vessel by which the energy of the Force is channeled. As such, they develop skills more receptive to the peace of mind required for this process: Telekinesis, Healing abilities, passive sensory skills, and so on.

By the very nature of the skills, this is not the case with 'Dark Side' techniques. Why? Because they aren't channeled passively - they require an element of aggression and emotive force behind them, because they are used to harm and destroy. If any of you have ever been angry for a while (I mean really angry) and acted from that, you'll know how exhausting that is. Imagine what happens when you combine that with the energies of the Force: it becomes an invariably dangerous process, combining energies that are (as Jared defines them) reflective of the Force's destructive side with exhausting psychosomatic energies.

Come on, you think projecting energy from your fingertips is something you do passively? Jedi serve the Will of the Force, or so we're always telling the students - the Force wills destruction of life through the application of Lightning, or seeks to drain life energy from others through the Drain/Slow power? Oddly contradictory when Jedi maintain that the Will of the Force is pro- and not anti-life. As such, to wield such energies, you have to direct yourself away from Jedi philosophies towards a methodology that is far more inherently self-defeating than that of the Jedi: you must use emotional energy to generate such skills, which is why they have always been skills found among Dark Jedi and Sith, rather than within the Jedi Order.

Before anyone mentions NJO, let's note that the difference here is not philosophy - whether you say the Force has Light and Dark, or is just a singular unified energy is irrelevant. The difference stems from methodology, the manner in which that energy is channeled.

And, frankly, KOTOR kinda got it right here: someone who wields Dark Side energies regularly will be used to the negative effects, and will become better attuned to the Dark Side, suffering less as a consequence from a singular use. A Jedi, someone who uses the Force primarily for good (pro-life) usage, using a passive and serene methodology should naturally have greater difficulty using skills that require an alternative methodology, and as such, should experience some negative penalty for that. It's written into KOTOR's mechanics: a Light Side Jedi requires more Force energy to wield Dark Side powers, and vice versa. Canon doesn't oppose this particular idea.

As such, I stand by my original suggestion.

Corinth Alkorda · Post by **Corinth Alkorda** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:58 pm

I've always roleplayed my use of Force Lightning as, in reality, Emerald Lightning. Emerald Lightning is a lightside variant of the ability, which does not channel aggression or anger into the user. It is green/emerald in appearance, and does not kill anyone; rather, it taps into and saps away their strength and willpower. It was discovered by Plo Koon, and later used by such notable Jedi as Luke Skywalker and Jacen Solo.

Now, if we would only edit the effect to be emerald in color.

Ametha Tasia · Post by **Ametha Tasia** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:00 pm

Well, quite frankly wire structure differs from the structure of the human body. Biologically speaking, lightning is most likely resulting from our neuronic circuits which harness the energy then project it. So...to harness that HUGE quanta of energy our body would suffer grevious injuries such as cancerous tumer formation and so on...(harnessing them regularly that is) not to mention cell destruction and so forth.

Then the energy has been harnessed. When harnessed it is directly converted into electrical energy, this conversion is not perfect following the law of entropy so, heat will begin to buld up in your hand's neuronic circuits and thus in your hand( The neuronic thing is just cause they are similar to wires, it has no bilogical evidence that they do teh job) The more the heat goes on the more hurt you will feel(thus the screaming when people shoot lightning)Since this is a "closed" system entropy can only increase so more and more heat will come, causing you to feel even more hurt as you keep the lightning going.

After that, The energy is emitted, as it is emitted huge ammount of skin cells "will" die there is no saying otherwise, just try holding on to a wire and tell me how you feel. Also, we have seen how destructive lightning can be, this would lead me to speculate that we are emitting more than 300 V which implies epic cellular degradation.

This would eventually cause bone decay and loss of some neuronic circuits which would make you lose sensation of heat and pain. Time after time your cells would stop to grow up correctly due to them getting inreceptive to nutritional material(thus the pale look). And if that doesn't happen beware of the harming of your genetic code or it getting altered due to excessive use of lightning. This will lead to cancer and so on...

Thus the fact that I will *never* get lightning.

Zeak Dystiny · Post by **Zeak Dystiny** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:02 pm

Corinth Alkorda wrote: Now, if we would only edit the effect to be emerald in color.

Hmm, could always modify it yourself and post a replacement for people to download.

Corinth Alkorda · Post by **Corinth Alkorda** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:12 pm

Personally, I find it hilarious that we're arguing about the way a supernatural current of electricity affects the user in a universe that encompasses the Force. My last argument aside, why wouldn't the Force shield you from physical damage when you use Force Lightning, when it already shields you from the ordinary affects on a humanoid body in other cases?

Navigation

JEDI Comport » ((JEDI RolePlay Mod/RPMod)) » Suggestions

Negative Effects of Dark-Side Powers?