JEDI Comport

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:48 pm**

Simus Cnydaria wrote:I'm rather excited by the direction this project is going. I think being too powerful is boring so I completely the concept of forcing players to think rather than just act.

Got to be very careful when "forcing" things, especially hefty disabilities that were not present before or that should not be applicable to one's character.

I do like the idea of specializations, I just feel the board currently caters to a Black and White audience. One side Heavy Force Users, the other side Heavy Combat characters.

But then we are restricted to only 16 class slots so having a class with every possible combination is out of the question.

I do notice however, that it would not be beneficial for anyone to change to "Knight" seeing as it has a lower Max HP/FP and Regen rate than a Sentinel and both seem to have no Force Power masteries.

I take it these stats will wait approval from the Majority + HC before implementation and that there will be a trial period to see if it works out?

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:56 pm**

Amoné Fayden wrote:Got to be very careful when "forcing" things, especially hefty disabilities that were not present before or that should not be applicable to one's character.

These changes are intended to be gradual and meaningful. I don't know what 'should not be applicable to one's character' means in this context.

I do like the idea of specializations, I just feel the board currently caters to a Black and White audience. One side Heavy Force Users, the other side Heavy Combat characters.

I think there's arguments to be made that some of the specializations blend 'force' and 'combat' in things such as healers getting protect early, wardens being more force-based, etc. - they certainly retain tints and shades but 'black and white' is a little strong, there's greyness to all of them except sage and battlemaster and that's very much on purpose given their roles.

But then we are restricted to only 16 class slots so having a class with every possible combination is out of the question.

I do notice however, that it would be beneficial for anyone to change to "Knight" seeing as it has a lower Max HP/FP and Regen rate than a Sentinel and both seem to have no Force Power masteries.

The only reason 'Knight' has a lower maximum hp/fp value is because they cannot go above level 22. Very few JEDI members make it to level 22 or beyond so I don't think it's a particularly heavy price to pay. Otherwise, their stats are identical to Sentinels stats all throughout their career, they just enjoy an open template for that time. Since growth is linear for all classes, the 'maximum' drop is reflected in the points they lose that others would gain at 23-25.

I take it these stats will wait approval from the Majority + HC before implementation and that there will be a trial period to see if it works out?

I don't know. I assume the Council will rule on it and I don't intend for it to be fitting to everybody's tastes from the get-go. People are going to get hit with the nerf stick but it's everybody that is getting it because everybody was able to do too much. This isn't just a change of mechanics it's an attempted change at viewpoint and regulation. I'm excited. Having to be more careful with your resources means that there's much more room to 'outplay' opponents.

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:01 pm**

Also, Sentinels don't get a single level 5 power until level 23. Knights have every level 5 power open to them starting at level 16.

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:49 pm**

Here's half of the 'complete' guide on when each class gets level 4/5 of a skill.

The values look like X / Y where X is the level they unlock level 4 of an ability and Y is the level they unlock level 5 of an ability. I'll finish the chart after I go to work today, etc.

[img]http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad29 ... able2a.jpg" width="530">

Obviously, going to need to click this bad boy.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:38 am**

Tomoran wrote:
Amoné Fayden wrote:Got to be very careful when "forcing" things, especially hefty disabilities that were not present before or that should not be applicable to one's character.

These changes are intended to be gradual and meaningful. I don't know what 'should not be applicable to one's character' means in this context.

Sorry, what I meant by that was RP being restricted to what you can physically learn through game mechanics and within the confines of the new classes when beforehand you could specialize any way you want with a free template.
It's just people didn't know when to stop piling on the 4/5 powers.

But you've since cleared up the Sentinel vs Knight query I had and supplied the above chart so this feels like less of an issue now.

We also have to keep in mind that some powers (Speed and Fury for example) are not "finished" yet are are somewhat pointless to extend beyond level 1-2. This will help keep things balanced until (or if) they are eventually changed.

Ta.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:13 am**

Indeed some powers will need worked on and expanded as they have yet to be touched beyond Level 3.

Though, the table looks pretty solid and the ideals behind it are good. I think the variety covers most of the popular choices but mixes and matches them in a way that might encourage people to choose their path a bit more carefully and.. hopefully... encourage actual role playing TO the path as well rather than just people, with powers, with means to use and learn them willy nilly.

I know I may lose some of the powers I have gained, but I'd quite happily see this change be implemented into a trial as soon as possible and adjust my current template accordingly. We will see how the game play aspect pans out with all the HP and FP regen adjustments and I'll wait to see the full table before I comment on the what level of powers open on what level of experience.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:46 am**

Sebastin Creed wrote:I know I may lose some of the powers I have gained, but I'd quite happily see this change be implemented into a trial as soon as possible and adjust my current template accordingly. We will see how the game play aspect pans out with all the HP and FP regen adjustments and I'll wait to see the full table before I comment on the what level of powers open on what level of experience.

This is not capitalized to antagonize or belittle, it is capitalized to reinforce its importance:

NOBODY WILL HAVE THEIR TEMPLATES ALTERED WITH THIS CHANGE.

My ideal time to 'start' the trial would be during the first week of October so that people can get their XP for this month and 'lock' their template. In the transition, nobody will have their templates altered AT ALL. Everybody will stay the class that they are and nobody will lose or gain any points in anything.

What will change:
-Your powers available to purchase
-Your HP
-Your FP
-Your Force Regeneration

What will not change:
-Your current template
-Your XP Value
-Your current class

What you will be able to do:
-If you are a Knight, you may request to become one of the specialized classes (or request to be moved to no specialization or 'Knight'). I will give more details on what information is necessary for this kind of application soon.

What I hope to do in the future:
-Rebalance the mechanics behind all of the Force Powers
-Look at the XP costs of powers and tweak them according to rarity/relative power/etc.
-Propose changes to .sab files based on individual masteries of forms of lightsaber combat
-Re-evaluate the xp values necessary for every level

Note: I want specialization class upgrades to be considered a very serious undertaking for a character, requiring years of relevant training and demonstrable evidence that your character fits for this path. Changing to a specialization class and then seeking to change to another specialization class should have a very long lag (several months) to discourage individuals attempting to change to the 'Free' template to build their desired powers and then 'specialize' later for the stats.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:10 am**

Tomoran wrote:Changing to a specialization class and then seeking to change to another specialization class should have a very long lag (several months) to discourage individuals attempting to change to the 'Free' template to build their desired powers and then 'specialize' later for the stats.

Hahaha!
I bet at least 8 people all went "DAMMIT!" after reading that statement.

I'm totally in approval of discouraging people from "taking what wins" without there being any IC evidence or legwork to back it up.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:13 am**

Ah okay, so to be clear then.

When/if this change is implemented, what Class would I, for example, become under this new listing? 'Knight'? or do I remain under the Consular structure but with the change in restrictions/powers?

Sorry if that's a silly question but I want to be clear on exactly how this will effect us if there is no changes to be made to anyones template during this trial.

Also, once you finalise this - the Council can get discussing about this trial period.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:28 am**

Sebastin Creed wrote:Ah okay, so to be clear then.

When/if this change is implemented, what Class would I, for example, become under this new listing? 'Knight'? or do I remain under the Consular structure but with the change in restrictions/powers?

Sorry if that's a silly question but I want to be clear on exactly how this will effect us if there is no changes to be made to anyones template during this trial.

Also, once you finalise this - the Council can get discussing about this trial period.

You'll be a Consular. Your powers will not change. The powers that you can unlock with the XP you have right now will change. Your HP/FP/Regen will change. Your powers will be the same. You will still have every power that you have right now but you might lose availability in some or open up in others (for instance, saber powers will be open to you since they aren't by class anymore)

You can submit to become one of the specializations if you think you can make a good case for you fitting for one of them.

So even if Consular doesn't have level 5 protect open to them and you have it right now, when you change to a consular under the new system you'll still have protect 5 even if you could not have gotten it with the new system. This is to prevent people from having to revise existing things about their characters.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:42 am**

I see, well that's fine by me.

I may still request to change my template around to fit to one of the specializations though to encourage and redefine my own role play (even if I get owned during game play for it) because I think it's that good an idea. Also the changes to HP and FP Regen all sound good to me as well.

Thanks for clearing that up, it's still a good system for new members to enter into I say, so kudos for the maths work.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:43 am**

Tomoran wrote:So even if Consular doesn't have level 5 protect open to them and you have it right now, when you change to a consular under the new system you'll still have protect 5 even if you could not have gotten it with the new system. This is to prevent people from having to revise existing things about their characters.

I thought that was the whole point in changing the system? To force people to reconsider a more realistic, complimentary path. I don't see the point if this changes nothing of the current template set up. Everyone that has unrealistically maxed out their template, will still have an unrealistically maxed out template..?

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:57 am**

Sai Akiada wrote:
Tomoran wrote:So even if Consular doesn't have level 5 protect open to them and you have it right now, when you change to a consular under the new system you'll still have protect 5 even if you could not have gotten it with the new system. This is to prevent people from having to revise existing things about their characters.
I thought that was the whole point in changing the system? To force people to reconsider a more realistic, complimentary path. I don't see the point if this changes nothing of the current template set up. Everyone that has unrealistically maxed out their template, will still have an unrealistically maxed out template..?

Which will be true of any student who matriculates into the system after it's implemented (in that these individuals will be forced to be more thoughtful of template decisions). If you think there are problems with individual templates then you may petition the Council to make certain stipulations on the transition in cases where you think individuals have built poor templates. I've built the system to not require that but I certainly don't have the authority to state whether it is or isn't part of adapting it.

It is demonstrably true that some templates are bad and if you wish for a course of action that would amend those templates then I say more power to you but I either have to give to everyone or take from everyone by redefining parameters like that and it would be far more difficult to 'sell' the transition if everybody were redefining templates (my recommendation is a simple clearing of the 'current template' field in the rpmod account, without making any changes to the 'template max' field, which will give them all of their XP refunded, allowing them to reallocate ... y'know what, maybe just like make this an option for people but with good reason to do so, not just to min-max again, etc?)

Anyway, there are ways to combat bad templates. This is more 'preventative' for future cases.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:00 am**

Sai Akiada wrote:
Tomoran wrote:So even if Consular doesn't have level 5 protect open to them and you have it right now, when you change to a consular under the new system you'll still have protect 5 even if you could not have gotten it with the new system. This is to prevent people from having to revise existing things about their characters.
I thought that was the whole point in changing the system? To force people to reconsider a more realistic, complimentary path. I don't see the point if this changes nothing of the current template set up. Everyone that has unrealistically maxed out their template, will still have an unrealistically maxed out template..?

Then perhaps that is something that can be discuss?

Should members be asked to revise their template under this new system or not?

Also, I believe what Tomoran is saying is that the template will remain the same but they may not have the same access to the others powers which they did before hand.

So for example, I could be ready to move onto protect 5 but under the new system that may end up being locked to me thus making me have to be realistic about my next choice.

for those maxed out already... might not make be that big a change unless we all simply induldge this new system and clear the template to start again under a specialization of our choice.

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:15 am**

Right now, when I level up to 21 at the end of this month, I will have Protect 4 open to me. If the system changes between now and the end of the month, and I become the new Consular? It will not be available to me. Everything I have I will keep but what I can get will change.

Also.

THE REVISED, COMPLETE AND TOTALLY AWESOME TABLE OF ALL NECESSARY INFORMATION ON POWER UNLOCKS:

[img]http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad29 ... able2b.jpg" width="530">

I can make a higher resolution version if I can get somewhere nice to upload it. But it's done and ready. Information, yo. Power to the people.

JEDI Comport

Tomoran's Class Revamp (Not Finished)