I'm honestly not in favor of making yellow offence 1. I've always seen shii cho as quick, deliberate attacks, much like blue's. From a movie stand point this is the best representation of Shii Cho IMO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kpHK4YIwY4
The moves are quick, mostly wrist action. Much like blue and very much not like yellow.
Elensa Jari wrote:Shii-Cho is designed to teach placement and precision of strikes - in essence, to give the student some understanding of Points of Contact, the different types of strike
Absolutely agree. And very -very- easily obtainable through proper RP with blue. If you're going into spars to beat each other to a pulp, it's always been taught that, that is not what spars are for. To be good with blue, -is- to be damn accurate and precise. If you're 'ffa' dueling with blue, that is where the problem is.
Elensa Jari wrote:Fast stance requires considerable understanding of footwork, motion and accuracy in movement
Everything Shii Cho should aim to teach new students into the order. Not to mention all stances require considerable understanding of footwork, motion and accuracy.
Elensa Jari wrote:from an IC perspective, no Jedi would move so quickly in using a lightsaber unless they already had some skill with it.
Move so quickly as in run about swinging wildly? Completely agree. Do we need to give initiates yellow stance to counter this? Nope, they'll still move quicker than they should if their aim is to 'beat' the opposition rather than to RP. Again proper RP will solve this problem.
Elensa Jari wrote:If you've ever used a real sword, you know that you certainly don't flurry around or use lots of spins and turns (even when you know what you're doing!), because this is both risky in terms of how the weapon handles, and also because it offers opponents unnecessary openings.
Correct. However remember lightsabers are
not real swords. We're not required to cleave through medieval armor to injure our opponent as would be required with a real sword in the times they were used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYw5KWT ... tu.be&t=90
Lightsabers require very little strength to injure, so it is safe to assume that early practitioners also knew this information and developed fast, quick strikes for this reason as Shii cho was not created for saber to saber combat.
Wookiepedia wrote:As Shii-Cho was developed prior to either the emergence of Dark Jedi or Sith Lords, it was not created with lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat in mind.
Elensa Jari wrote:Honestly, Medium stance offers a lot more in terms of precision training: combinations and drills are far more extensive in Medium, both because you're limited to a maximum of 3-4 chained movements, and also because each is slow enough that they can be broken down and combined easily. With Fast stance, you have nanoseconds to decide on your next movement, and this is far harder both to teach with and learn from!
Agreed, it does. That is why I feel yellow would be better suited to padawans as they really begin to hone their strengths.
Elensa Jari wrote:Students new to the lightsaber are encouraged to use two-handed strikes: the single-handed emphasis of Fast Style runs counter to this, suggestive of a fluidity and confidence in handling of a lightsaber that no new student is likely to experience.
Yes they are, and blue is still two handed strikes apart from the spins. Which I, as an initiate was taught simply -don't- spin.
Elensa Jari wrote:suggestive of a fluidity and confidence in handling of a lightsaber that no new student is likely to experience.
Again, this is a matter of people realizing RP over game mechanics. Sure, I can reroll tomorrow as a fresh faced initiate that just got their lightsaber jump onto the dojo mat and start throwing out flurries and kata's and moves that no new young initiate should know. I could do this with Yellow too, but we don't because we're an RP clan that prides itself on not doing that.
Maia Rimora wrote:Shii-Cho is meant to represent your traditional swordsmanship, and I don't recall many of them being able to pull off so many quick swings unless the blade was incredibly light to begin with.
Two points on this one. Shii-Cho was a
transition "the process or a period of changing from one state or condition to another." from sword to lightsaber. Again I'll refer to the obi wan vs darth duel here. Second point, the lightsaber has no mass, the blade is weightless
Maia Rimora wrote:It should be noted, in Wen's argument, I find that only true masters of Shii-Cho were capable of being so unpredictable, for most initiates, this is simply a stepping stone into other forms
"Form I encouraged deliberate tactics, calling for continuous, step-by-step advancement while cutting off the opponent's angles"
"Basic initiates in the style demonstrated rather clumsy performance, though in the hands of a master, Shii-Cho was fluid but highly randomized and unpredictable."
Yellow does not seem clumsy to me what so ever. Blue? In new hands it is hilarious. My point? Blue -is- the stepping stone into other stances.
(I will follow the masses on agreeing that tavion and desann need to be swapped.)
Maia Rimora wrote: I for one, would much rather be without blue, as it is something I rarely ever use.
You can do this with a simple .sab file edit
What I would really like to see is us doing away with 'training' settings. Keep the term IC but get rid of the training variants. I don't feel we need to alter offence 1/2 in any way, what we do need to do is instill proper RP of the forms.
TL;DR RP should solve most of the problems. Change your RP before you change the game mechanics.