Various adjustments

[Cyril Feraan]

Here are a few tweaks that I think would be beneficial for the RP system:

A) Jedi classes should be only for Padawan ranks and above.

It does not make any sense to me why initiates are forced to prematurely choose a path to follow. Other than prolonging spars and provides a sense of progression, I do not think it adds any sort of meaning to the system. An initiate is one who knows only the basics, if anything, in combat and Force study. Generally, they do not have much experience in any areas of study, and cannot appropriately choose what will end up as right for them. Many end up changing in time anyway.

An initiate may choose to RP their strengths and weaknesses, but from one to another, they all learn pretty much the same things, and as such, having a class is unnecessary. When a student has recieved a mentor, that seems like a more appropriate juncture for choosing a path of study, making that decision collectively. This is also another reason why progressive stat building is something that I support greatly, as has been suggested previously.

In addition, any instances of guests or hopefuls with Jedi classes is absurd.

B) The XP required to level up should be changed for some level ranges. In the early levels, there is hardly a difference between levels (levels 1 through 5 are 5 xp a piece). There is virtually no meaning in being level 1 versus level 3, whilest level 12 versus 14 is a much bigger difference. Level is an indicator of experience, but it is hard to tell that at the moment...what is needed is an equalizer of some sort.

C) If I am correct, the Force bond system currently does not differentiate between actual levels of sense when it comes to bonds. I believe it would be more realistic, however, if while a Force bond greatly increased sensing ability for each of the bonded, someone better at sensing in general would be better at sensing within the Force bond. Thus, if someone with level 5 sense and someone with level 1 sense were bonded, though the person with level 1 would get a boost, the level 5 would still be able to sense their bond partner better.

[Nivek Tholmai]

Points B & C, I don't see much in too be honest. I like the current xp set up and the force bond system is pretty cool as it is.
Point A however, the whole choosing class at an early age. I see your point and it makes alot of sense to me personally but I think you *should* be allowed to pick as an initiate like we do now. If you are unsure of which path to follow stay as a Sentinel, that's sorta what it's for isn't it? The balance.
Pretty decent points Cyril But I like everything as it is, that's only my opinion though.

[Lynee'alin]

I totally agree to points A and B, classes are something which are building onto the basics you have learned while you were an Initiate. They are advancements of basic skills and experiences, so to say. Changing a path without even having the basics actually means that you, for example, focus on skills with the saber as an Initiate, neglecting the basics of other areas of the Force (basics which every Jedi, no matter the interest/path, should have). And, as you pointed out, the Initiates learn the same in the end anyways, there is no real need to rush for a class that quick.
Although I don't know the XP needed for levels, I agree that levels 1 to 5 (if the XP values you said are correct) should be modified. As well as other levels which need a too similar/different XP amount to gain.

If I am correct, the Force bond system currently does not differentiate between actual levels of sense when it comes to bonds. I believe it would be more realistic, however, if while a Force bond greatly increased sensing ability for each of the bonded, someone better at sensing in general would be better at sensing within the Force bond. Thus, if someone with level 5 sense and someone with level 1 sense were bonded, though the person with level 1 would get a boost, the level 5 would still be able to sense their bond partner better.

In my opinion, Force Bonds shouldn't be connected to Force Sense in any way. Force Sense is the ability to sense high concentrations of Force energy (and, with more experience, the Force energies themselves, no matter if strongly concentrated or not), such as the ones of Jedi or living beings.
I think the one you share a bond with is basically "a part" of yourself within the Force, or kind of a reflexion of you.
The feeling you have when you feel someone you share a bond with is not the feeling you feel when you sense someone through the Force, in my opinion. It is a feeling which you have inside of you, like a whisper, a brief glimpse, so to say. I think that you can feel the person you share a bond with (even if you have only very little experiences in sensing people) on random/various occasions, relatively nearby. And as the bond evolves, those feelings may become stronger, in the end willingly being able to focus on the person and feel him clearly.


In short, sensing people with Force Sense is an action where you "focus" out of your body, whereas feeling a person you share a bond with is a feeling which comes from inside, not affected or influenced by Force Sense; a "focus" to the inside, so to say.


I think the current system, regarding game mechanics (Sense level not affecting the range of sensed persons you have a bond with) is fitting.

[Cyril Feraan]

Lynee, you make an excellent point there about bonds, so I too now doubt as for the necessity of C.

[Tarwacca]

I totally agree to points A and B, classes are something which are building onto the basics you have learned while you were an Initiate. They are advancements of basic skills and experiences, so to say. Changing a path without even having the basics actually means that you, for example, focus on skills with the saber as an Initiate, neglecting the basics of other areas of the Force (basics which every Jedi, no matter the interest/path, should have). And, as you pointed out, the Initiates learn the same in the end anyways, there is no real need to rush for a class that quick.
Although I don't know the XP needed for levels, I agree that levels 1 to 5 (if the XP values you said are correct) should be modified. As well as other levels which need a too similar/different XP amount to gain.

If I am correct, the Force bond system currently does not differentiate between actual levels of sense when it comes to bonds. I believe it would be more realistic, however, if while a Force bond greatly increased sensing ability for each of the bonded, someone better at sensing in general would be better at sensing within the Force bond. Thus, if someone with level 5 sense and someone with level 1 sense were bonded, though the person with level 1 would get a boost, the level 5 would still be able to sense their bond partner better.

In my opinion, Force Bonds shouldn't be connected to Force Sense in any way. Force Sense is the ability to sense high concentrations of Force energy (and, with more experience, the Force energies themselves, no matter if strongly concentrated or not), such as the ones of Jedi or living beings.
I think the one you share a bond with is basically "a part" of yourself within the Force, or kind of a reflexion of you.
The feeling you have when you feel someone you share a bond with is not the feeling you feel when you sense someone through the Force, in my opinion. It is a feeling which you have inside of you, like a whisper, a brief glimpse, so to say. I think that you can feel the person you share a bond with (even if you have only very little experiences in sensing people) on random/various occasions, relatively nearby. And as the bond evolves, those feelings may become stronger, in the end willingly being able to focus on the person and feel him clearly.


In short, sensing people with Force Sense is an action where you "focus" out of your body, whereas feeling a person you share a bond with is a feeling which comes from inside, not affected or influenced by Force Sense; a "focus" to the inside, so to say.


I think the current system, regarding game mechanics (Sense level not affecting the range of sensed persons you have a bond with) is fitting.

I think we can all agree...Lynee owns...

Anyways. I agree with A, and only A for the same reason as Lynee. The XP/Force Bond systems don't need changing.

[Axem Keigoku]

Hello there, being responsible for the ridiculous class layout, Level Xp requirements and many of the Powers modification ideas, I'll provide explanations.

A) what I found funny is that when I proposed the first KOTOR classes a few weeks ago, I was told that differences between classes are too dim and later on. And now, you tell me that there should be no differences between classes, until Padawan-level. Okay... let's get this clear...

Classes are landmarks, hints, and guide-lines in terms of powers and feat. Possibly, at one point, we will create a 'Skill and Feat' system to add up to the Force powers. So, instead of having level-based Stats bonuses, it will be Skill and Feat wise.

Force Focus
Allows the Jedi to expand his understanding of the Force, granting him a greater ability to use its Power.
1: 125FP
2: 150FP
3: 175FP
4: 200FP
5: 250FP

Again, depending on class, levels will unlock at a certain rate.

B) with the current systems, and a maximum of 2600 XP to get 100% template, it is hard to squeeze in 20 levels, forcing 5XP levels with not much of a purpose.

With the KOTOR classes that are currently being tested, it will be changed to a more significant XP gap between levels.

C) Force Bonds
The Force bond directly comes for The Sith Lord game, where a newly reawakened to the Force would bond with a powerful Shadow/Gray Jedi. From that point, even without mastery or any kind of true training, the Exile could feel the pain and transmit his(her) thoughts to Krea...

Force Bonds are VERY strong.


Hope this clears

¬ Axem

[P't'ral]

I see the point Cyril is making about Jedi archetypes, in that as a masterless student, there really isn't a point to them at such a low level of XP. Perhaps if there were sufficient lessons taught to students so that they may make an informed decision rather than taking an OOC perspective and saying "This is how my character is and will always be". Most people growing up don't know what they want to be.
So perhaps it could be allowable for students to focus on the different aspects of each archetype and make a "LOCK-DOWN" decision once they're ready to be apprenticed, rather than once they create an account.
Overall, I think it should be more of an in-character decision, than an OOC one. Development rather than design, which is how characters in role playing should always be; design is for getting a character to a playable status, development is about making them who they are 6 real-life months down the line.

C) Force Bonds
The Force bond directly comes for The Sith Lord game, where a newly reawakened to the Force would bond with a powerful Shadow/Gray Jedi. From that point, even without mastery or any kind of true training, the Exile could feel the pain and transmit his(her) thoughts to Krea...

Force Bonds are VERY strong.

I dunno if its possible in JKA then to have "damage/effect" sharing, but if it isn't, whats the point of Force Bonds being implemented in the game? What of those PCs (player characters) who don't want to spend XP on Force Sense, are they SOL when it comes to Force Bonds?
I think if its going to be maintained at its current state of cyan coloration with sense, it should be a constant effect, rather than simply a Sense-only effect. Easily exampled in multiple canon materials: Such as when the Myrkr strike team heard the Force Cry from the Joined Raynar Thul during the Dark Nest Crisis; they weren't "actively listening" to the Force, they were simply bonded.

[Axem Keigoku]

I dunno if its possible in JKA then to have "damage/effect" sharing, but if it isn't, whats the point of Force Bonds being implemented in the game? What of those PCs (player characters) who don't want to spend XP on Force Sense, are they SOL when it comes to Force Bonds?
I think if its going to be maintained at its current state of cyan coloration with sense, it should be a constant effect, rather than simply a Sense-only effect. Easily exampled in multiple canon materials: Such as when the Myrkr strike team heard the Force Cry from the Joined Raynar Thul during the Dark Nest Crisis; they weren't "actively listening" to the Force, they were simply bonded.

Personnaly, I wouldn't like to be sparring someone and get all my HP cut off from me because I am bonded with my not-yet fully grown Padawan. It wouldn't be useful nor enjoyable for anyone. And another thing, Sense causes Lag aswell on some lower-end machine. Having Sense being on at all time for Bonded players would make it quite annoying when you'd be close to that person.

Though, I understand your point, and the realism of your idea, Game-mechanic and gameplay-wise, it is not suitable to have it always on.

¬ Axem

[Jude Alkorda]

Possibly just have sense the way it is now, just people with out it only see the people they are bonded with.

[Syrena Exan]

I agree, I think initiate is way to early to decide. it requires us to use ooc thought, because our characters are too young and too untrained to actually know their weaknesses and strengths. They haven't yet developed. Plus the personality of the character hasn't fully developed either. I like the idea of waiting until they are chosen by a master. COuldn't we create a fourth class, a balanced 'undecided' class?

[Nivek Tholmai]

COuldn't we create a fourth class, a balanced 'undecided' class?

I think you *should* be allowed to pick as an initiate like we do now. If you are unsure of which path to follow just stay as a Sentinel,

[Axem Keigoku]

Nivek is right on this...

As a matter of fact, there is actually two official Classes, Sentinel and Consular. Guardian was added with KOTOR, but now is also authorised in many SW RPG.

If you are unsure, even though most young initiate and hopefuls quite effectively display their class, choose Sentinel, and worse comes to worse, it is doable to change your class later on. This is not ment as a 'way out', and you cannot bounce back and forth. But once, with good reason(s), I don'T see why the COuncil would deny...

[Syrena Exan]

I guess as long as we're allowed to change out class sfter a while, staying just a sentinel is fine.

[P't'ral]

I dunno if its possible in JKA then to have "damage/effect" sharing, but if it isn't, whats the point of Force Bonds being implemented in the game? What of those PCs (player characters) who don't want to spend XP on Force Sense, are they SOL when it comes to Force Bonds?
I think if its going to be maintained at its current state of cyan coloration with sense, it should be a constant effect, rather than simply a Sense-only effect. Easily exampled in multiple canon materials: Such as when the Myrkr strike team heard the Force Cry from the Joined Raynar Thul during the Dark Nest Crisis; they weren't "actively listening" to the Force, they were simply bonded.

Personnaly, I wouldn't like to be sparring someone and get all my HP cut off from me because I am bonded with my not-yet fully grown Padawan. It wouldn't be useful nor enjoyable for anyone. And another thing, Sense causes Lag aswell on some lower-end machine. Having Sense being on at all time for Bonded players would make it quite annoying when you'd be close to that person.

Though, I understand your point, and the realism of your idea, Game-mechanic and gameplay-wise, it is not suitable to have it always on.

¬ Axem

Could you address this?

[Ctathos]

To address one of his points, I'll elaborate.

Imagine the bond between Jamus and I.

We spar each other. Each time I hit him, I would receive damage because we are bonded. Completely ruins mechanics in that aspect.

For sense/bonding, personally, I like it the way it is. No adjustments necessary in my opinion.