Force Fatigue

[Asrelia Mhy]

I doubt most will like this idea.

Cyril and I were discussing realism today, and one topic came up, regarding Force usage and fatigue.
REALISTICALLY even a powerful Jedi Knight/Master would have trouble focusing on using the Force when he's trying to 1) jump to a specific spot, 2) find an opening to attack his opponent, 3) defending himself (and on some occasions others) from his opponent, 4) increasing his reflexes via the Force.

So what I suggest is that the Force energy "pool" be decreased, or perhaps altered to increase per level. And that activities have more adverse effects on one's Force energy; for example, if a person were to run they would be less focused on their surroundings, so I recommend a Force cost for running (1FP/distance or time spent running); utilizing Force techniques, such as Heal, Absorb, Protection, Lightning, which require much concentration and energy, and should result in a penalty on a person's Force regeneration. It is unrealistic for a Jedi to be jumping, slashing and defending, then find the time/concentration/energy to use the Force to heal himself, then return to fighting after he's done his little animation.

Also, with Force regeneration one would be more focused on regaining that energy, or perhaps not at all. Thusly I think it would be realistic to be able to toggle a person's Force regeneration, where a movement speed penalty would enact when one desires to regain their Force energy, or if they don't desire to regain their energy, they may not have the penalty to its full entent. I say lesser extent because using the Force taxes the body, a person would become fatigued after expelling large amounts of Force energy, as exampled in EU canon as Luke Skywalker aged prematurely due to excessive Force usage and various other examples in Star Wars literature.

I believe this system could also be implemented as a generic fatigue for non-Force sensitive people, such as soldiers in missions/scenarios. Such as giving a Force energy "pool" to a non-Force sensitive, but no experience points.

[Dixo Xan]

Good idea but I think it would severely ruin gameplay. And for reference, a system like this was used in swg back in time and it worked great. But for JKA it would be to complex and in the end just be destructive for combat/spars.

[Xeuus]

I was thinking when I read this how about adding an affect like blurring as in light headed or a small blinding white which you can just make out objects. This would only happen if you have been running or jumping or using a heap of force.

((This has happened to me many times playing sport in extreme heat))

[Asrelia Mhy]

But for JKA it would be to complex and in the end just be destructive for combat/spars.

Destructive in that people enjoy taking advantage of the system and cease role playing when they spar.

[Dixo Xan]

JKA the game is centered around combat, saber combat specifically. You can't change that fact. JEDI is a roleplaying society, but with JKA being about saber combat part of JEDI will always be saber combat. Unfortunately, combat in JKA isn't very realistic, and no mod can change that completely. Trying to force a game like JKA to be a 100% realistic is impossible, it will only ruin the game experience.

To me the suggestions you've come up with will only slow down, piece up combat and ultimately making it more boring, with less skill to it. I recognize how many of the things I and others do in spars can seem unrealistic but we try to Roleplay it as best we can. Since we are in many ways limited to the possibilites of JKA we have to be flexible in regards of what is realistic and whats not.

It's not realistic that anyone can take 4-5 (or 10-15 hits as guardians) hits from a saber without dying or taking severe injury, but since JKA is built that way we have to accept it. Same with how you combine force powers with swordplay in combat.

[Jared]

At the moment, RP Mod makes a powerful Jedi very powerful indeed.

Yes, spars are somewhat over the top, but people can choose to RP them in a more realistic manner.

As for taking saber hits, simple mods like this one
http://jediknight3.filefront.com/file/M ... _Mod;45027
give the illusion of bypassing that game mechanic, making it seem like the final hit is the one that felled your opponent.

The Force pool is reflective of the Force powers present in the game.
For example, if our Force Storm is supposed to be the exact same power that palpetine used, somethign is seriously wrong there.

Every fictional realm has its own grammer, the grammer of Jedi Academy was that the individual player got uber powerful over the course of the storyline. We tone down that process. If the player chooses to RP fatigue I don't think any of us have a problem with it.

While we RP in a Game with Game mechanics, there will always be the oppertunity to exploit said game mechanics. I think RPmod has really made the game more interesting. Those that are after a 'Pure' RP experience might want to RP in a medium that relies solely on text.

JEDI is neither a gamer experience, nor a 100% immersive RP experience. It's a community that enjoys both and we all strive to make the RP as engaging and as realistic as possible, but everyone needs to unwind and some of us choose to have fun when we spar.

[Asrelia Mhy]

Given the option, most people revert to the "gamer tendencies" that come naturally due to subconscious competitive nature. One person does this, their opponent has to follow suit in order to have a fair fight (and if they were to stop and comment on it, they would be labeled a whiner), and it becomes contagious, and eventually everyone falls into this gamer mindset.
While there are some who try to spar realistically, those people have to interact with those who don't spar realistically, forcing their hand.

This suggestion was to limit the option of reverting to "gamer tendencies" by means of game mechanics, because just "RPing it" has significant pitfalls.

When you have both gameplay and role playing there will be conflict in the interaction between those who put gameplay first and those who put role playing first, resulting in cliquing.

But since there is obvious line-drawing, Soh most likely won't implement this suggestion in order to attempt to please everyone. So cliquing will continue.

PS: Damage levels can be changed so that sabers or blasters would do significantly more damage, which is why there are insta-gib servers.

[Ctathos]

I don't believe we will ever compromise the gameplay (sparring) for this effect.

However, I like the idea, and part of it is already implemented (increase FP with level). Perhaps if during a duel (using the duel activate key) it could be disabled... thus allowing people to spar/duel with or without the effect.

[Corinth Alkorda]

Nothing here that decent role-playing won't solve.

[Darek Creed]

Sorry if i have over step my bound by posting here, i just wanted to give my opinion.

Basically, the idea sounds good but i agree with Corinth on this one, simply rping fatigue ect would be good. Though i agree, the sparring as it is now is good. The mod as it is now, is good. I wouldnt tinker with it much more.

Regards,
Creed

[Cyril Feraan]

Nothing here that decent role-playing won't solve.

We have actually gone through this before and concluded that we should role-play. What happens? Few role play it.

Then it spreads. It works like this:

Person A is sparring with Person B. Person A does not roleplay, Person B does roleplay. Person A starts crushing Person B because they use superior in game tactics. Person B fights back and quits roleplaying because they are getting beaten badly, and quickly no one is roleplaying in combat at all.

If we want to avoid implementing such a system, people should honestly RP fatigue, and forget about their pride OOC. Thus I sound like a bit of a hypocrite when I say: I'll RP it if you RP it.

Otherwise I agree with Asrelia when she said:

Destructive in that people enjoy taking advantage of the system and cease role playing when they spar.

All that is needed is this:

When you are fighting, think to yourself: could my character really do this? Am I utilizing too many techinques at once? (e.g. - If you are constantly flipping around your opponent and healing, you should have a reason to utilize that style of fighting.) Remember that Force healing is more complicated than pressing a button and watching a blue mist rise. To a limited extent, it can be done on the move, but the JKA system allows infinite usage at a certain regen speed.

Therefore, there is no penalty for prolonged action (something that should have been in JKA to begin with), and no particular reason for the player not to do so. It is all too easy to get carried away. If anyone has ever done sword type fighting IRL, you know what I mean. Running and swinging a sword is tiring enough. Imagine if you are also using the Force and Force jumping at the same time as this. Even for a well-conditioned Jedi, this is not going to happen extensively.

So just think to yourself and be honest with the realism. Some people will have Force-intensive styles, others will not. It depends on your character. You have to see it like a class. In class, you may know all the answers OOC, but does it mean you say them? Why should it be any different when you are fighting? The wide range of OOC skill in combat in JEDI makes it difficult, but I think everyone could make more of an effort.

If this cannot be done, we have to seriously consider something like Asrelia suggested.

However, I like the idea, and part of it is already implemented (increase FP with level). Perhaps if during a duel (using the duel activate key) it could be disabled... thus allowing people to spar/duel with or without the effect.

I also think that Ctathos' compromise is a decent one, since I realize that some will probably never agree to giving up the total freedom from freestyle fighting.

In summary, it would not have to be a drastic change, and even if fatigue was added through RPmod, it would still be the same feel as it is now, but with gradual limitations to prevent abuse. Is this not fair?

Sincerely,
Cyril

[Asphar]

In my opinion, that suggestion sounds pretty good..
I'd be up for a slower regeneration of the Force Points.. Or even no regeneration at all.. It would be great if you could only regenerate your Force Points by meditating, sitting and using other type of emotes..

Asphar Du

[Ergo Stomi]

It would be a good idea to have it regen while in emotes, but, not all Jedi Meditate while sitting still. Many Jedi meditate through spars or combat.

[Atrux Nuro]

It would be a good idea to have it regen while in emotes, but, not all Jedi Meditate while sitting still. Many Jedi meditate through spars or combat.

I know everyone hates the show Dragon ball Z, But I think the game is relevant. During the fight if you want to increase your energy you have to press and hold a button, and if you keep fighting using endless enrgy (or force) your fatigue lowers and your character will slow down a lot or just flat out fall to his knees. I think it would be cool to have fatigue and force points above a normal persons fatigue level and once you drain your force you have the stamina of a regular person and if that falls so low you have to sit or kneel to bring it up. I think it would make combat more realistic and challenging, and harder means more fun...to me anyway.

[Asrelia Mhy]

Many Jedi meditate through spars or combat.

Meditate perhaps. However this "spar meditation" is exclusive to JEDI, and exists nowhere in canon sources. (No, "moving meditation" has nothing to do with sparring/wielding a lightsaber)
Also, meditation is external to regaining Force energy. One can meditate to regain energy, or to listen to the will of the Force, or to clear the mind, or to have a feeling of oneness.