True Duel Mode

[Vantus]

Where JEDI does uphold a strict RPing policy, (which I like by the way) I do understand how Ctathos feels. As you play day-to-day in JEDI, I see no reason why your actual gaming skills can't increase at the same time. If the only sparring was RP sparring, then the same people would pretty much win each time seeing as certain individuals are classed as "the best with a lightsaber" in RP.

I think the Callenge/Accept method should be used for those that want an OOC spar. Instead of creating a work around like a hologram simulation, it could just be the acceptance of an OOC spar. So long as any Victory or Loss does not breach into RP, I don't mind people OOC sparring in empty rooms away from the RPing crowd. I'd only question their reason for being in an RP clan if all they did was log on and OOC spar.

I like the added bit about model scale and Health/Shields too but that's probably because I feel Vantus is currently a considerable chunk bellow the average 24 year old in terms of health. (67 health and shields at the moment)

[Cyril Feraan]

Vantus, when you said "I'd only question their reason for being in an RP clan if all they did was log on and OOC spar.", that summed up my initial thoughts.

HOWEVER, I can understand the desire for some sort of mode for this, and therefore it would be logical enough to construct dueling mode into a means of OOC skill practice; this could work if desired.

Personally, I believe you can still practice OOC lightsaber skill: for example, Jamus and I have recently done some of this, and in doing so, yes...I did end up losing almost all the time, for numerous reasons including our differences in "saber defense". However, there were two benefits in this: a) I still improved, b) with the HP system and how RPmod works with levels, we could actually integrate this OOC spar into a form of RP, which is, to my understanding, a form of what the aforementioned "classical JEDI" did.

I'd say a little more, but I'm tired right now. Perhaps tommorow.

[Lynee'alin]

Why in the world would you want to emulate a base JKA feeling? o_O

In terms of overall gameplay, baseJKA is what comes close to JK2, which is superior. That's probably a reason why base is chosen for tournaments and the like.

[Yon Vash]

This was a good thought however....((this is only my opinion)) But I have seen recently a reduction into the quality of RP ((IE: Going afk and just standing there, blatant misuse of OOC in many hopefuls the quality of conversation is ....leaving something to be desired. Leaving the game and just vanishing in a class room full of people etcetera this goes for older players padawan and above as well.)) I'm not saying I'm perfect. I make spelling mistakes console mistakes etc, this is not my point. MY POINT is that I think that instead of going out of our way to have OOC spars that we could make ourselves better overall role players. Maybe it might bait some meaningful conversation if nothing else?

There are one thousand and one JA+/Base JA servers that anyone can go to anytime.

-Yon-

[Gabe Alkorda]

I think this is an excellent idea, especially if given the functions that Ctathos has described in his initial post. It'd be fun for participants, will help better their sparring skills (which is a key point in a Jedi's training), and is simply a nice addition to an already outstanding mod.

As far as "what's the purpose", it's been described, and even if you ignore the obvious OOC benefits, it also provides a nice addition to the in-game RP, if you see two participants "sparring each other in their minds", or even if it were used as an electronic example, in that the two would sit down, and holoprojectors (new models w/ the rphologram effect applied) would appear, sparring each other.

Again, good idea Ctathos.

[Coren Ran]

EDIT: // Removed this post, so I don't cause any problems publically.

[Yon Vash]

::Sighs::

MY POINT is that I think that instead of going out of our way to have OOC spars that we could make ourselves better overall role players

[Arikakon Genkal]

Everyone from initiate to master spent their time dueling, and little else. The concept of 'true' roleplay did not even exist until over a year to two years after JEDIs birth.

This is not a REQUIRED thing to do.

I think the point CT's trying to make here is that JEDI was originally founded to make people better at JKA. I don't think this would really be going out of our way, and most spars I do are actually IC, even if they're not fully RP'd. If that doesn't make sense...

Things make sense in my head but not in words...

But yeah, I support this idea. Yon, I agree with you that we should be making ourselves better RPers, but we can't neglect gameplay, either. A perfect balance would be nice, but the moment anything perfect happens, the universe goes bang.

end of debate, w00t

[Phoe Nhix]

Good idea, indeed. Abilities with the saber has indeed been an aspect of JEDI.

If I may, I'd want to recall to some of you that Jedi Knights are after all meant to be warriors, regardless of their beliefs and ways.

I have sometimes observed in members, believing it was for RP sake, a tendence of just sitting, talking, thinking and nodding. But as Hippies won't save the world by making love. Jedi won't save the galaxy by being physically passive, Exercise is thus recommended.

For those who persist into disagreeing, Just keep in mind that you can avoid a duel, and that no one will Jump right in front of you and press the touch for proposing you a duel. This way we would be able to RP spar and OOC spar with no problem, just little formalities dealt with through PMs.

[Aslyn Denethorn]

Yes, Jedi can be warriors, but they are Jedi first and foremost. And lightsaber combat does not a Jedi make! It is but one aspect, and not even the largest of those aspects constituting Jedi philosophy. So that would not be an argument I would be inclined to support, Master Nhix.

[Lynee'alin]

Yes, Jedi can be warriors, but they are Jedi first and foremost. And lightsaber combat does not a Jedi make!

It's JKA, an (Ego-)shooter revolving around (saber-)combat mostly. Neglecting the combat aspect of the game in any way (including hardcore RPing) will go nowhere.

[Aslyn Denethorn]

I'm not saying we ignore it, but I am saying that introducing such a system leaves it open at a focus upon it, leading to a much bigger removal from an RP system, and that's the beginning of the end, to my mind.

[Jared]

Implement the suggestion but leave the 'RP friendly' justifications and just spar.

There are perhaps a handful people in the temple below master rank capable of conducting a spar mentally, and holo simulations would offer little benefit.

I'm for the idea as long as it's coding is easy enough to adapt.

However the issue of health can be resolved without an additional feature if you simply count your health/shields and say 'Solah'... controversial I know (I'm aware that this doesn't address the issue of having inferior/superior saber levels or model scale).

I believe OOC practice is less detrimental to this clan (and indeed an INTEGRAL part of the overall experience and part of JEDI's foundations) than unrealistic integration of abilities to be used IC that people simply wouldn't be capable of performing.

I think the justification of "Other clans have tournaments like this" is a bit irrelevant though, because when has JEDI ever participated whole hog in such events? Double clanning is prohibited but everyone is free to hit up FFA or Duel servers and test their mettle.

Something that solely benefits an OOC application of game mechanics should NEVER use role play as the back door in to common use. Present it for what it is and use it.

[Vantus]

Well said Jared.

As somebody who enjoys both OOC Sparring and Immersing themselves in RP, I can understand both points.

I think a definitive separation of OOC and RP spars needs to be established. Verbal nods and PM clarification before each spar doesn't always happen whether through the excitment of the build up or because others are watching.

There is however, always a choice in whether to OOC spar or not. If you don't want to do it - don't.
Forcing one or the other upon people who don't wish it is the main problem we'd best avoid.
I also don't like the Stigma that people who enjoy OOC sparring are not good Role Players. I think thats a load of Tripe!

People usually know how somebody is going to spar. I could count the heads of people I know who prefer to RP spar and those who always go full on.

In my opinion, the issue could be solved by making the Challenge/Accept feature cause both participants to model scale to 100%, Give Saber Defense and Offense 3 and leave it at that. (I'm not sure if the Dueling glow around players has been removed in RP mod or not. If not, i'd suggest removing it.)

This way there is a physical invitation.
Maybe even change the challenge message it to "<name> has challenged you to an OOC Spar"
If you don't want to spar OOC, don't accept.

If you don't like the idea of being model scaled (in the case of Larkit for example) and you don't want your Saber Attack/Defense altered, then I guess you would just need to PM your partner and confirm you will be Sparring OOC using your template as you normally would.


I have to admit i'm not a big fan of this Hologram or Mental Sparring idea. Why sit down and spar mentally when you could just get up and do it. Also, perhaps it's because im naive to Star Wars canon, but I have never heard of this ever being mentioned.
Furthermore, thats a lot more work for Soh when the issue could be resolved in a much simpler way.


Sorry for the lengthy Reply!

[Gabe Alkorda]

Why sit down and spar mentally when you could just get up and do it. Also, perhaps it's because im naive to Star Wars canon, but I have never heard of this ever being mentioned.

Master Corinth, myself, and some (if not all, it's hard to remember) of my Padawans have all done this at various times throughout our tenure in JEDI, as well as other members I'm sure. Master Corinth used it heavily when learning his former Mentor's saber form, Tentou. I've done it with my Padawans as various forms of training. There's many uses for it.

The largest value of it (from an IC aspect) is that while it doesn't actually train your *body*, it trains your mind (creating reflexes and knowledge of how to better perform in combat situations), strengthens your ability to focus (obviously, sparring realistically in your mind requires a great deal of concentration), as well as your connection to the Force (sparring an opponent simply using your connection to one another through the Force).

Very valuable indeed, if you ask me

Also, I'd like to note that I don't believe this is an attempt at creating OOC sparring, as that is the kind of sparring present on an OOC server ("duel?" "gg" "gf"). Simply that this would create another outlet for those of us who choose to spar using the full extent of the game's mechanics instead of limiting ourselves to create realistic performances (although I still don't understand the difference between the two ).

Just my (other) two bits.