Roll stab

[Delmi N'jork]

If you remember in Jedi Academy Single player, it takes no force to do the roll stab move. Personally, I think this should be put into RPMod. When you think about it, no force would really be needed to do that. I could do that and many people without Martial Arts training could pull it off. Any thoughts?

~Delmi

[Aslyn Denethorn]

I agree, that's fair.

[Kelch Chilar]

If you remember in Jedi Academy Single player, it takes no force to do the roll stab move. Personally, I think this should be put into RPMod. When you think about it, no force would really be needed to do that. I could do that and many people without Martial Arts training could pull it off. Any thoughts?

~Delmi

I think the reason why it uses force is due to the fact it does a crap ton of damage. At least that's the way I've always seen it. So the reason why they made it use up force is for a balancing act for multiplayer uses. So they don't have people yelling at them to fix it asap. So I say ... meh. Not needed but OK.

[Zeak Dystiny]

But first you've still got to roll stab correctly. It's easy for you to miss and easy for your opponent to dodge your stab.

[Yulia Cera]

Well it slows down the people which use it aswell, and I don't think initiates would be able to use it too many times without getting tired so it would work if it stayed the same since it is like a boundry for not over-doing.

[Vorde Surda]

The blade of a lightsaber is made of pure plasma. As such it does not require a lot of force to impale a person and therefore in my humble opinion it's not realistic to spend Force points in that regard.

Fatigue must be kept into account as well.

[Vantus]

I've often thought about why moves such as Lunge, Roll Stab, Katas, YDFAs and RDFAs take up Force Pool when any normal human could do them. (keep in mind a lot of the JKA combat animations have been motion captured.)

The reason they are there I believe is to stop people from spamming them. As Kelch has pointed out, these particular moves (bar YDFA) deal a lot of damage and as such, need a draw back.

I must take the time to point out that the FORCE bar is not a FATIGUE bar. However it IS being used as Fatigue in this particular instance simply because there is no fatigue bar to use.

In my opinion, I think the Force Penalty should be removed from ALL saber moves and if somebody is being an idiot and spamming a move unrealistically, it should be dealt with in the same fashion we deal with people that use too many kickflips or saber throws.

[Kael Sekura]

Fatigue must be kept into account as well.

I agree with the original post but without the force pull you sadly run the risk of spamming. If people were able to keep fatigue in mind as Vorde mentioned, it would help though. The same applies with Cartwheels and DFA styled attacks. If only Soh could create a fatigue bar to run along side the force and health. I'm not sure if that is at all possible though. Think there were a few topics on it but I forget the outcome.

Anyhew, I do quite like the idea of removing force usage from some specific abilities, like the roll and cartwheel. (also removing the requirement of having your lightsaber active to cartwheel if possible)

[Jared]

Yes, people in real life can do a roll stab... but can they do that roll stab ten times in a row, in the middle of a ten minute spar wielding a blade of pure energy that has an insane centre of gravity that makes it feel like your mowing the lawn with a gyroscope?

Nope. And that's why Jedi wield lightsabers and not every Tommy-come-lately in the SW Universe.

As you rank up, your force pool increases, and with it your ability to perform certain moves.

While Guardians have a lower force pool (making the correlation between katas/some saber moves and force usage questionable) they also have significantly higher health and armor.

Having a stamina bar to allow you to perform x no of special moves would require a huge amount of coding and it would radically alter the way many of us fight, it would be a realistic addition to RPmod however, if it could be implemented.

I personally feel though, that the present solution of "well doing these kinds of things should cost you something" and thus taking off from the force pool, is adequate for general use.

[Vantus]

My arguement is that the Force Pool is being substituded for a "Stamina Pool" and moves that require absoultely no Force Sensitivity to use, are being drained from a Force Pool that could otherwise be used for actual Force Abilities.

However, that said, I also understand why the moves have penalities.

Some may find classes irrelevant here but as Jared mentioned, Guardians have a lower Force Pool and thus are inhibited from doing special combat moves which is contradictory to their role and aspirations as combat specialists. While this happens, Sentinels and Consulars have free range to do as many as they want within a given time frame simply because of their Force Pool.


The three main fixes for this would be to either:

1) Creating a Stamina bar (If it's even possible).
2) Remove Force costs for certain moves.
3) Leave it as it is and just deal with it.

[Kelch Chilar]

Yes, people in real life can do a roll stab... but can they do that roll stab ten times in a row, in the middle of a ten minute spar wielding a blade of pure energy that has an insane centre of gravity that makes it feel like your mowing the lawn with a gyroscope?

Nope. And that's why Jedi wield lightsabers and not every Tommy-come-lately in the SW Universe.

As you rank up, your force pool increases, and with it your ability to perform certain moves.

While Guardians have a lower force pool (making the correlation between katas/some saber moves and force usage questionable) they also have significantly higher health and armor.

Having a stamina bar to allow you to perform x no of special moves would require a huge amount of coding and it would radically alter the way many of us fight, it would be a realistic addition to RPmod however, if it could be implemented.

I personally feel though, that the present solution of "well doing these kinds of things should cost you something" and thus taking off from the force pool, is adequate for general use.

Honor code would be SO much easier though. I don't see too many ((if any)) people abusing the whole "fatigue" thing. And keep in mind, you're a Jedi, not some beer gut Joe, you're bound to have a lot more conditioning than normal.

Also, I hardly think it matters though, force power use or not. It's hardly gonna break or make the mod. But like I said before. Not needed, but you have my support?

[Yulia Cera]

.
3) Leave it as it is and just deal with it.

mmhm!

[Aslyn Denethorn]

I should also note that the only people that typically have issues with their Force Pool are students. For the Knights, most of us either have a fairly decent-sized Force pool or regen to manage - and, let's face it, you do NOT need to spam katas/lunges/DFAs/cartwheels etc to win a lightsaber spar. As such, it's perfectly normal to use up a good chunk of your Force Pool to perform a move and have to wait for it to regenerate before you can do it again.

The anti-spam approach that we have is not only practical but valuable. If anything, I'm inclined to say that some of the moves should have their cost increased (particularly thinking of katas and cartwheels here, since they're the most-spammed moves used).

In my opinion, I think the Force Penalty should be removed from ALL saber moves and if somebody is being an idiot and spamming a move unrealistically, it should be dealt with in the same fashion we deal with people that use too many kickflips or saber throws.

That said, and I'm sorry to disagree with you Vantus, but we generally don't (in my experience) deal with such things. People get a little huffy on both sides when it's commented on, and rather than positive changes being made, the sparring sessions simply decrease for a while until everyone's had a good sulk and gotten over it. Flipkicks, excessive saber throwing, katas every 30 seconds - these are not dealt with in any particular manner, and are often encouraged by some instructors. That being the case, the only way to ensure they are not abused is by maintaining a high FP cost for those skills.

If we changed that, and people started relying less on special moves, then I'd agree that we could lose the FP cost across the board. Until it does, however (and I suspect it won't), I'd advocate that the cost remain.

[Vantus]

I guess it's down to what side of the Force Pool you sit on.

The people that are likely to want it changed are the people that are being effected by it ie. Students and Guardians. It's one thing sitting in the comfort of level 16 Knighthood and tell people it's fine once you are a Knight because lets face it, that's not something that is (or should) be achieved after a couple of weeks and most of the JEDI populous ARE students.

As mentioned before i'd have the cost removed on principle because they are NOT force-empowered moves. Asking to have the force cost of telekenisis removed, THAT would be wrong.

A rolling stab is hardly a Jedi specific move requiring Force.

You are right about one thing though Aslyn and that is the fact people do not police their own spars. That says something to me though - those involved obviously don't mind. If somebody were spamming a specific move, lets say flip kick, I would say something after a time. I would say it in a constructive way though rather than throwing the toys out the pram.

Further to that, i'd be more than happy for my opponent to spam Katas because they are terribly easy to counter. I think most will continue to use these moves as they always have once they realise that spamming the move is pointless anyway.

I just think it would be nice (and realistic) to perform a roll stab, kata and then be able to make a decent jump afterwards without needing about 20-30 seconds of time out. Especially if you should be physically able to.

[Gabe Alkorda]

Force and stamina are so closely intertwined, it's perfectly realistic to use a single bar to represent the two within game physics.

I hate it as much as the next guy, but I think it's realistic and imposes a nice limit on performing such moves. I also don't want to mess with the combat system in such a way.