Negative Effects of Dark-Side Powers?

[Aslyn Denethorn]

Hello all,

So, I was just chatting with Arkallon, and our conversation got me thinking: why are there no negative effects to using most Dark Side Powers? As we know, in SP, using Fury/Rage gives you a major speed/attack-rate boost as well as protecting you from being KO'd for the duration. But once it's over, your attack rate and movement rate slows down, due to the Dark Side energy you've had coursing through you to generate that skill.

In canon, it's well established that use of Dark Side energies can be damaging, and Jared suffered a fair amount of injury from his use of Storm, while Gabe and Phoe have both aged a fair amount due to their heavy use of the Force at a given time (admittedly not Dark Side, but reinforcing the idea of the Force's physical effects).

As such, I'm wondering: could we establish something similar for the other almost wholly negative Force Powers? I'm primarily thinking Storm and Drain here, although if it could be done selectively for Hold 4 and 5, that'd be good too. Really, we should reclassify Force Meld, but I understand the Light/Dark Categories are a little non-negotiable.

Here's what I have in mind:

Drain/Slow

5-second reduction of FP regen (to, say, half regen?) per level (although perhaps this ought to be more prohibitive at lower-levels (so, 10 second for Drain 1, 7 for Level 2, 5 at Level 3) due to the level of 'skill' with regards to the practitioner, and then go up as the skill itself gets more powerful (and hence requires more energy)? Or maybe have a lesser delay with 0 regen? Something along those lines.

Alternatively, since we're calling it slow, why not edit it so it decreases run/walk speed for the target, but achieves a similar but lesser effect as the negative?

Lightning

Gradual health reduction for the duration (after all, Force Lightning is physically dangerous to the users), changing dependent on the level (as with Drain, higher for Levels 1 and 2, plateauing at Level 3, and going up again for 4 and 5).

Grip 4+5

Block on TK usage for x-number of seconds after use (Push/Pull/Hold), altering according to level (increasing at level 5 compared to level 4). Alternatively, use the same system as advocated for Drain.

Just rough ideas, but I thought it'd add more of an edge to using abilities that are otherwise fairly overpowered as a general rule.

Any thoughts?

[Li Andru]

Well thought out and arranged. A for presentation and idea thought process I love it! Sounds good to me.

[Delmi N'jork]

Wonderful idea, Aslyn. Great thinking.

[Corinth Alkorda]

Honestly, I don't really like the idea. I'm always prone to choosing RP over mechanics. If someone thinks that they should be reacting this way, then they should roleplay it. I don't usually like things that restrict creativity through game mechanics.

[Aslyn Denethorn]

And how many people do you know stop to RP when they're sparring, Master Corinth? The vast majority will do so only before or after, but rarely during. I don't think it limits creativity - I'd say it provokes it. Look at Blavek and his rare application of Force Rage, the negative effects clearly sufficient to play a part in his pre- and post-spar RP. If you have present negative effects, those can be RPed well enough - mainly because they have a direct and noted effect, rather than simply being something people give IC lip service to, and pay no actual heed to during combat.

For myself, I, too, prefer RP to game mechanics, but more often RP is ignored because game mechanics don't offer enough call to RP something out. Does anybody stop to consider how draining some Force use can be? Or how nobody can still be as fresh as a daisy after 20-30 spars? Some do, but it's a rare thing, because there's nothing to encourage it beyond the approbation of some of the RPers around, and we're all generally happy to overlook it. For myself, I'd rather we not be quite so blithe about such things, and a little reinforcement from mechanics wouldn't be amiss.

[Saos Nartu (old)]

JEDI is a very strict roleplay server, but it also needs to be fun. I honestly think it would get boring if you didn't roleplay the effects yourself. I think introducing a damage factor would just be a major annoyance to the user.

[Johauna Darkrider]

Well, the fact is, Force powers like Lightning and grip shouldn't be used in mere spars. Lightning is damaging power and should be used only if it's really necessary. So using this, well, from RP-wise angle, that's a bit too much. Anyways, if the game does everything for us, what fun there would be, when we'd have nothing to RP on our own?

[Fane Ornn'ila]

Personally I think it's a good idea. It's true that RP can do a lot more than the game would allow.

The diffrence is, if it is an RP option, it's a choice if one would RP this damage or not. If it's a game thing, it happens, like it or not- it would be the side effect of the powers. If the statement 'those powers are damaging to yourself' is always true, then it should be something the game handles (To where it's possible) rather than deciding for yourself if you want it take effect you or not.

Once you would be affected by your power due to the game, you can easily turn that into RP. Perhaps it should be seen as a reminder that it does affect you. As Aslyn said, it would provoke you to RP it out, because it is already happening.

[Sasha Raven]

Honestly, I don't really like the idea. I'm always prone to choosing RP over mechanics. If someone thinks that they should be reacting this way, then they should roleplay it. I don't usually like things that restrict creativity through game mechanics.

I see your point Master Denethorn, though I agree completely with Master Corinth. I don't see putting stipulations on things that could be easily rp'd with text more creatively and descriptively. Also, all the Jedi mentioned that suffered injury or aging or complications with their over use of the force rp’d so with model tweaks and solid rp.

[Dixo Xan]

I haven't bothered reading any replies to this. No thank-you to this. The only power that should have a negative effect to it is lightning at higher levels because the effect on the practitioner is so documentated. My idea:

Use of lightning without pause for 5 seconds at level 1-2 = debuff
Use of lightning without pause for 3 seconds at level 3+ = debuff

If this could be tied up to your account level it would work even better. Use of lower level lightning (1-2) for a level 20 account would be less tiring than for a level 10 account. The higher your level the more you can zapp people before tiring. Another idea is that your account regiser how much you've used lightning over the last period of time. If you've used lightning for over 5 minutes over the last 24 hours (number just taken out of the air) you get some sort of lasting debuff. If you have 3594059406 hours playtime registered on your account and 34354646 hours where you've used lightning it's a pretty good indicator you use it too much. Debuff.

As for adding a penalty to force choke. It doesn't make sense. Yes, it wouldn't be good for Fane to go off and choke Zeak to death but it wouldn't require a much higher level of skill than simply levitating a person. The act itself is not what would drain you as much as the knowledge of what you've done. And drain. No. It has many different levels of application. There is a difference in draining someone's life essence and in just leeching some off their energy. But in-game there is only one drain power and giving a negative effect to it would just limit the less radical RP uses of it.

[Ametha Tasia]

I agree with aslyn. Sometimes, espesially during spars, people don't rp properly they tend to revert to the original game tactics and think they're on a duel server. I've seen lots of people "spar" ,but pay no heed to rp or realism what so ever. "Constant" Jumping by seven to ten year-olds, constant striking, never getting tired out what so ever after multiple spars..."It's just something I find irrational and quite annoying. But these things specifically cannot be restrictid via game mechanics as it would be quite tedious and annoying.

As far as the penalty for lightning and choke and other dark-powers I think it should be enacted due to the fact that using darkside powers should be severely exhausting. Same goes for all dark powers. I think we should change slow to actually "slow" the opponent without replenishing your force power. It should make them restrictid to walk movement, prevent them from using some powers for a duration such as jump and saber throw...

I also agree with Johauna that using lightning should be "heavilly" restricted. Also, usage of hold excessively should be prevented somehow...it's just unacceptable and unrealistic.

Perhaps it would be simpler to write a sticky in the rules and tips forum about "how to spar rp-wise" and "how to use force rp-wise". Because I dont think that focusing too much on restrictions would be good for rp mod as it would deviate its attention from "helping us rp" to "rping for us".

Yes, I think making a sticky about the above topics in the rules and tips forums is the best way to go. If anyone violates it, simply talk to them via pm. That don't work take a screenshot and send it to a master so they may talk to them, and so on and so forth... Pfft, but then we will be forced to even have new restrictions and when and when not to report stuff....

Guys, don't spam dark powers, the force or anything. This is a realistic rp, keep it that way.

I think I have presented every possible view point here. The one that wins my support would be that we do both: Encat the penalties on dark powers and put a sticky in the forums.

~~Sheesh that was long lol~~

[Nivek Tholmai]

fact that using darkside powers should be severely exhausting.

You sure?

[Ametha Tasia]

Lol. That video cracks me up every time...Anyways, yes it should be. But taking palpatine as an example would be like taking yoda as one, hmm?

[Nivek Tholmai]

Who jumps around an awful lot during spars

[Ametha Tasia]

Yes. but the two are like ULTRA masters heh. They cant be taken as templates. A template would be...any Jedi. Take...Qui Gon Jiin(Yeh his skills were...average)He never jumped alot. I think any(MOST Jedi here) should take his example in spars. I have yet to see someone rp a spar, really rp it other than Li...(speaking on kiddie basis here) Li fell from exhaustion, lost her saber multiple times, got knocked off...etc. It's more fun to rp a spar, than to spar like normal.It gives it more meaning.

I cant imagine Corinth using lightning like Sidious lol...that would be a vid lolololol. Anyways, an example of light lightning use would be one of the spars I saw gabe do with yulia...he just knoked her saber off with a minor zap..he didn't spam it. Plus I think lightning should be resticted for like ULTRA masters...not just for normal knights.