I'll get flamed for this

[Baelin Raddyx]

Is there some way we could make things more realistic for guests who come to RP with us? For instance I have a few friends that are in clans as Jedi that come but don't get saber and force. Now I'm not necessarily saying that they should get that, but I believe there should be a larger focus on guests-Jedi don't just interact with themselves, you know. Why can't a freelancer come along with a vibroblade on his back? It is naive to believe that every person to come to the temple outside of an event would be unarmed.

Allow me to outline my argument based on arguments I have seen here:

Some of you will say that you do not see that it is needed:

If we were to use that logic then we wouldn't be in a RP community would we? For it indeed isn't needed. So using this logic I can assume that it would be more realistic than not to have guests that have some sort of power and aren't totally ignorant.

A big response that I anticipate is abuse.

However believe it or not I don't see any way that someone can abuse something that that someone without weapons can't. I can punch spam everyone in my way, I'm sure I could just taunt and get on everyone's nerves, so there really isn't an argument that says they could abuse because frankly if someone was going to abuse they could do it without weapons. Additionally, I believe that one would have to request an account for that kind of character. It doesn't seem too difficult; also that would give the council a bit more control over who would be able to carry weapons and/or have force powers outside JEDI. Think of it as a permit to carry a weapon


Guests don't need weapons.

How come? If we are to indeed diversify our rp and make it as realistic as possible then we would be crazy to not add this feature. It seems almost as a slap in the face to outsiders that come to roleplay and find out that they have to be in JEDI to get anything such as a lightsaber, force or weapon. But say if a member arrived that was just playing a freelancer stopping by there is no reason why he couldn't have a gun. But Baeliiiiiiin.... if he wasn't going to use a gun why would he need it?! You're right. Let's take the archives out too and only add them when someone actually wants to read a book. C'mon >.>

Eh I hope I wasn't too pushy, I was just laying a defense based on various arguments I have seen in the suggestions area as of late.

[Silas Ortisman]

Weapons aren't handed out because a mere guest who just happens to join will take the weapon, pretend to be a Bounty Hunter and shoot at everything that moves.

End of argument.

[Simus Cnydaria]

::flames Baelin::

I appreciate the suggestion and I do see your point and can see how there could be some benefits, but let me tell you something.

I remember a time before rpmod when we had xp, but it was a system we kept track of by ourselves and were not restricted by game mechanics from doing anything. It was only self control that prevented a hopeful or an initiate from maxing out on Force lightning for example.

You tried to argue that it would not or could not be abused. Well, in a day in JEDI's history when your suggestion was status quo, it *was* abused. There were guests that were coming in all the time being disruptive, being totally unrealistic (annoyingly so) with their stories, and there were times when guests would come in, completely ignore rp totally and would go around laming and slaughtering JEDI members, often at times when no admin were around so there was nothing we could do to stop it.

The way it is now keeps things more orderly, prevents them from getting out of control, which happened not occasionally, but *a lot.*

I appreciate the heart and spirit behind your suggestion but I do not wish to see this implemented.

I encourage RP in the community, and I know you have a response to "it is not needed," but I'm going to say it anyone. It is not needed. If someone wants to come in and rp being from a different temple, they can. They technically don't need powers or a saber to do so.

If theoretically we wanted to do some rp with outside guests it is within the Council's power to create accounts that allow for such things, but I believe that it is probably tedious, they probably wouldn't want to make an account for every guest that comes into the server, and I doubt they would want to approve such things for strangers who have not been vetted yet. But I really shouldn't speak for the Council.

Please don't stop making suggestions, and don't take it personally that I do not support this one. I actually think you're doing a really good job Hope to see you server-side soon

[Baelin Raddyx]

I'm not offended in the slightest.

However I do wish to point out that I didn't say it wouldn't or couldn't be abused, but rather that it doesn't take weapons to abuse; in fact I could come in as a guest and abuse several things such as taunts, melee, chat, etc.

Further, I can understand that the council wouldn't want to just make an account for someone but I imagine if a member vouched for their friend they could make an exception. While this and every feature has the potential to be misused it's important to remember that there are ways to avoid it and no feature is too small or unessecary for rp. I'm aware that the council could make accounts if they so wished but I was under the impression that it was a strict "no JEDI, no weapons" policy that had only a couple of exceptions (i.e. Alpha from JO.)

As for what you said Silas-if someone just joins to join they wouldn't want to make an account. If someone joined for serious rp then I don't see why they couldn't have a weapon. Someone who strives to get an account would want to rp regularly.

[Ergo Stomi]

This has been brought up so many times. Guests aren't given weapons cause its abused. Even vouching for someone can lead to abuse. And then whoever did the vouching can get in trouble. You don't *NEED* weapons on you to RP having weapons anyway.
Plus, a common excuse is that the Temple has security, which "removes" any weapons from guests on entrance.

[Atrux Nuro]

1.) Why would A Jedi need a vibroblade?
2.) Why would A Jedi need a Vibroblade on the JEDI server?

The only reason students have a lightsaber is to train as A Jedi, not for protection at the temple. Students are only allowed to leave the temple if they are accompanied by a Knight or higher...or they leave their weapon at the temple and leave as a civilian not a Jedi.

Giving weapons to guests would ruin the Role play anyway. The only real reason guests would ask for a weapon is because they are bored and would spend the majority of their time slapping metal in the Dojo's, or trying to look cool with a big stick on their backs. If people spent less time worried about the weapons and combat aspects of the game they'd spend more time and effort in role playing and THEN we could really have a diverse community.

[Simus Cnydaria]

I'm not offended in the slightest.

However I do wish to point out that I didn't say it wouldn't or couldn't be abused, but rather that it doesn't take weapons to abuse; in fact I could come in as a guest and abuse several things such as taunts, melee, chat, etc.

Ok, fair enough. I apologize for misquoting you, bud

[Jamus Kevari]

There's also the fact that Yavin IV isn't exactly the most frequented destination for outside individuals, let alone those who wish to travel through the dense jungles to some isolated temple within its territory. While weapons can serve as a nice prop for a special guest, such a special circumstance could be granted some weight simply through an administrator lending a blaster to the individual who requests it.

JEDI, as the title suggests, is very Jedi-centric in our foundations. If we were in a different role-play environment, such as a city, or even on a Jedi Temple with a larger civilian population around it, I would perhaps buy into this suggestion to a larger degree.

[Alkur Tekeil]

1.) Why would A Jedi need a vibroblade?
2.) Why would A Jedi need a Vibroblade on the JEDI server?

The only reason students have a lightsaber is to train as A Jedi, not for protection at the temple. Students are only allowed to leave the temple if they are accompanied by a Knight or higher...or they leave their weapon at the temple and leave as a civilian not a Jedi.

Giving weapons to guests would ruin the Role play anyway. The only real reason guests would ask for a weapon is because they are bored and would spend the majority of their time slapping metal in the Dojo's, or trying to look cool with a big stick on their backs. If people spent less time worried about the weapons and combat aspects of the game they'd spend more time and effort in role playing and THEN we could really have a diverse community.

I'm with Atrux's vein of logic here. The RPmod is centric to the Jedi role in the Star Wars setting, not bounty hunters, killer robots, and soldiers. If you want something like that, go play MB2.

Though I do have to say that most JEDI members are guilty of "just swinging around their lightsaber when they're bored", I know I do it from time to time.

But the focus on JEDI, and I believe of the RPmod as well, is to propagate a role playing environment in JKA, and weapons aren't essential to that.

As it stands weapons have been allowed as account-specific before, and certainly it requires a level of maturity and responsibility for a player to handle such extras without disrupting things immensely.
And regardless of whatever system of selection for weapon allocation we devise, someone will be unhappy with the arrangement. And I would say it'd be suitable for a heavy-handed ruling of "none for everyone".

[Baelin Raddyx]

Don't get me wrong I'm not all hung up on the weapons; it was a thought that occured to me and I thought I would be a fool if I didn't post it up.


And for the last time (tyvm), it doesn't take a gun or vibroblade to abuse and spam! I could get on right now and do that with a variety of default features. That argument is completely useless and holds no weight whatsoever other than the fact that it would more to abuse.

[Zeak Dystiny]

Don't get me wrong I'm not all hung up on the weapons; it was a thought that occured to me and I thought I would be a fool if I didn't post it up.


And for the last time (tyvm), it doesn't take a gun or vibroblade to abuse and spam! I could get on right now and do that with a variety of default features. That argument is completely useless and holds no weight whatsoever other than the fact that it would more to abuse.

Scanned over this (should probably read it properly) and someone already mentioned my point; you'll lose what weapons you had when you enter the grounds/temple/apply whatever, so having one is almost pointless. Secondly, yeah sure you could get on and abuse and spam some of the different features currently available, yet having no gun/blade removes the ability to spam & abuse them. Just because you can do it with other features it doesn't remove the validity of the argument.

[Azrael]

Quite frankly not everyone in the Star Wars universe carries a weapon. In fact relatively FEW people in the Star Wars universe would carry a weapon, even a blaster. When taking the fact that you see everyone in the movies and the awful Clone Wars series with weapons into consideration you have to realise WHY because of the positions those characters have.
On the point of vibroblades, this isnt KotOR. Gone are the days when every man/woman and their pet nerf carried a vibroblade around with them. Even at the time of the movies, vibroblades had dropped allmost completely from common usage and JEDI's time period is a further 270-odd years on. The chance of people carrying them around? Near 0.

Also, yes, when hopefuls are granted weapons they are allmost allways abused. Perhaps if someone of reasonable experience of roleplaying with JEDI requested a 'special' character that carried something then MAYBE then they could be granted a weapon or two, but weapons for the general hopeful population? Big no no's.

[Nivek Tholmai]

First point, you won't be flamed, it's against the forum rules.

Now then: If you're a hopeful, you are being observed role-playing with no advantages or benefits such as weapons or what-not at your disposal.

If you're a guest and for some random reason the character has found themselves on Yavin IV of all places in galaxy.. (It's worth noting the majority of JEDI members to this day seem to prefer to interogate non-hopeful guests as to wth their characters are doing visiting a temple rather than letting them just crack on with role-playing... oh well.) Then technically speaking their weapons are removed when they enter the grounds by the security. However, if under our observations we've deemed you trustworthy and you've been around a bit and you've abided our rules and asked the council very nicely, you may be granted the privelage of a weapon. If it's abused, the weapons are removed, and so are you.

Going back to this point about not needing weapons to spam. You're completely right in that respect. You can be just as disruptive without a weapon just as much as you can be with one. You're still dealt with the same way.

Now here's a point I'd like to make though.. If you're armed, what is your occupation? Okay a bounty hunter.. what's a bounty hunter doing socialising in a Jedi temple? You're a smuggler, okay. Smuggling is illeagal, we bring you in and you never come back as that character. You're a thug, okay fair enough. We arrest you. You're an innocent kind-hearted being who has a side-arm for personal protection. Okay, fair enough. Such an individual would happily hand over their weapons without complaint, feeling content to walk about the temple without it.

[Sebastin Creed]

Yeah Nivek pretty much nailed it for me at the end of his message there and Azrael is correct on Vibroblades etc.

One thing I *could* suggest which I saw once being carried around by Dixo (But it looks different from what I remember, sleak and black in color). Is the wooden staffs in the weapon pack, I know not every guest will be the type of person to carry one of those about or even able to wield it in any type of martial arts form but for those 'Guests' that have a plausable reason for wanting one and even students currently in the ranks could perhaps use that during their training.

I know we currently RP having full frequency as well as training frequency lightsabers, but this might add a bit more dynamic whilest opening up to those more 'able' guests that are deemed worthy of the privilage. I just remember using the 'Wooden' staff once whilest training many moons ago and it looked and felt the part during RP to be training that way whilest learning to use my lightsaber.

I just think it that could be expanded on and enabled it might answer the request and offer something a little more. The thing is I am not sure we actually have the 'Single Saber' version of a wooden stick/staff. I'm also aware that most students won't learn staff or dual till the reach Knighthood or near enough, but stick/staffs would open up the possibility of training it earlier.

Besides, might look better for us when we get knocked down, we can then associate that with being knocked down or tripped during the spar. (Rather that cut down with the saber)

Anyways, ranting now... apologies if anyone has suggested this before or if it has already been discussed previously.

[Zeak Dystiny]

That staff is modded <_< unless it's been altered since the last version...