Adjustments to force storm

[Dixo Xan]

I'd like to see some adjustments. I'd like storm 4/5 to be a power only applicable when at a stand-still. My suggestion is that is a player moves while casting storm at level 4/5 his damage and effect is downgraded to that of level 3. Storm is overpowered with no real defense against it.

Another adjustment I want to see in-game is the 'cast time' of level 4/5. I want a charg-up time of 3-4 seconds for lightning level 4, whilst a reduction to 1/2 seconds for level 5. With the latter suggestion combatants will have a short period in which to run for the hills or or apply their absorb skills. Another notion is that the use of lightning will require more skill, especially use of level 4/5, which will need some timing to hit home. I'd want to see this with some sort of animation, perhaps just the regular one thats at the current, with sparks or energy building up around the hands of the player casting the lightning.

Discuss!

EDIT: I want to stress that I think force storm/lightning is the most iconic power from stars wars and that it definetely has its place in JEDI. All in all I think my suggestion builds-up around the power of lightning, still making it an epic attack, while on the other hand moderating it so that its not an instant 'I-win' button.

[Alkur Tekeil]

As long as it doesn't look like something from Street Fighter or Dragon Ball Z I'm okay with it.

[Jamus Kevari]

Sounds good to me.

[Delmi N'jork]

I support this, good thinking.

[Illrian Damaris]

I support this, good thinking.

[Tomoran]

So you want someone to have to stand still for three seconds to use storm at level 4?

That'd be an "i win" button to an "i lose" button. I understand that people hate force storm but two thirds of the knights I face completely nullify it when I spar against them and as fun as it is to hate it (and I know people do) I can't say that I think changes THIS large when patches are so few and far in between can be justified. Baby steps.

[Emilia Carizk]

I'm fond of the idea. However I think three to four seconds is pushing it for a delay at level four. Two seconds sounds more fair and reasonable. Storm may seem overpowered to many, but in actual fact there are a few ways that you can instantly nullify its effects, such as lightsaber defense level three, and Force Absorb. Granted, Force Absorb is a little out there in the skill tree, but defense level three isn't. I often find that those who are defending themselves against storm have no chance at holding it for too long though. So ensuring that the Force Storm practitioner can not run after you whilst casting because of the complexity of the attack, I think evens it out. So the defender has the oppurtunity to back up. You could perhaps argue that then the defender gets off too lightly when blocking. But what if the defender had to walk whilst defending? That would mean it takes longer to get out of range. So if you stepped in too close and got caught. The chances of you escaping or getting hit are a fair balance in my opinion.

[Tomoran]

For reference, Iverian, a guardian, can hold defense against storm throughout its duration unless he wastes force in the startup by jumping at me or using a force power. Defense 3 will keep you safe from storm. If you try to attack while it's going on or throw your saber, you will get hit by it. Now, a Sentinel can block lightning with defense 3 with their extra force pool throughout its duration without much worry at all, even if they use some force power.

I'm not opposed to it being reworked, but a lot of people don't know how to fight against storm and not understanding how to fight it, in my opinion, doesn't give it grounds for being neutered just because it can be annoying. Saber Throw, Force Absorb, Jump Kicks, Hold 4/5, Desann/Tavion stance and plenty of other things are annoying, too but I don't mind them because you just have to learn how to play against them.

[Dixo Xan]

Tomoran: I see your argument as flawed. Defense 3 is not an ideal solution. It just takes on push or flipkick and you are down. Once you are down you are dead, when against somoene with level 4 lightning. Absorb works, yes, but not all have it and besides, absorb runs out eventually. Its in these pauses that someone good with lightning attacks. The power of level 4/5 lightning at the current will kill you. All you need is one knockdown on your opponent and you are finished. As such adding a delay to 4/5 (storm with KD) you will give other players a reasonable chance to defend themselves. I used to have lightning 4 in my template and I could kill more or less anyone with it, if I wanted to.

And yes, 4 seconds might be to long. This would have to be balanced in-game to find a good solution.

[Tomoran]

Absorb runs out ... you fall down, then you turn it back on and get back up and it stops damaging you. It's 90 points to counter a 90 point skill. 90 points to counter almost every skill. Not everybody has absorb. The only reason to neuter lightning is to further homogenize the builds around here to kill what little semblance of diversity already exists.

I have not once watched someone in a spar endlessly zap all of their force pool away just to try to win against an opponent. I haven't seen it and I won't see it. You know what I do see? Katas out of saber locks, hold lunges, dual saber spammers, protect 4 users, saber throw spammers, et cetera.

Your perception of my argument as being flawed still does not mandate this change as necessary. It's an annoying power but annoying powers make up a long list. It's not cheap to obtain and it's not as easy to use or abuse as you think.

[Phillip Braden]

I have not once watched someone in a spar endlessly zap all of their force pool away just to try to win against an opponent.

*cough*Tomoran*cough*

I seen you do it loads, it's the only force power you tend to use next to jump and hold/grip when dueling, you can't include protect in that instance as you use it like twice, seriously everyone knows what to expect as you incredibly PREDICTABLE, perhaps move to more defensive powers to help you from being KO'd when sparring using the force vs. saber.

Even so, you end up losing with it anyway =D.

I think a few others may agree that you spam it ALOT, I support the charge time idea as it will possibly reduce Tomorans constant spamming and make him resort to other methods.

EDIT: Just to point out I did go off-topic there I admit but I made a valid point but I'm not trying to sound negative so don't take it the wrong way Tom =D.

[Dixo Xan]

You speak out of lack of knowledge. I see this coming across as a a personal attack yet I say this in good concience. I wholeheartedly agree that there are annoying powers that needs reworking. But fact is that lightning at level 4/5 knocks you down and kills you if the user holds it down long enough. Fact remains that if a lightning user wants to kill you, he can. There is no defense against lightning. You can use absorb as in a preventive manner but eventually a lightning user gets his chance to shock you and then you are at his mercy. Yes, most if not all high level lightning users does not abuse the lightning by holding it down for its duration (killing anyone and anything in its hitzone), yet they have the ability to. This bugs me.

All powers should have a tactic or power that neutralizes them. Protect is cancelled out by drain. Mindtrick by sense, a saber throw by a crouch.
Lightning can be used instantly with a KD effect and enormous damage. There is no way to defend yourself against it if the person you are up against wants to hit you.

I strongly oppose to the use of tavin/desann, and I've only had one person use it against me, in which I said I would not stand for it. As I see it there is no acceptance for the use of off 4/5 in duels since its overpowered. Lightning is something of the same, which is why we need balance it out.

[Illrian Damaris]

Um, Phillip. He doesn't spam it. With those that are younger (Illrian for example) IF he uses it, he just does a quick little zap that makes me fall to the ground but that's it. Against other, older ones (example Iverian) he uses it more, but still doesn't just hold it till Iverian cries Solah. He uses it for a few seconds. I've sat and watched him go at it with Iverian a few times.

Also, with the idea of what Dixo is saying, like I said, I support it. Yes, perhaps a slightly yes amount of "charge time" just so it's not unrealistic, but still I do think some time would be nice. Perhaps 2 seconds would give the person on the ground long enough, even if he isn't on the ground? (:

[Phillip Braden]

Um, Phillip. He doesn't spam it.

I mean't as a whole.

[Alkur Tekeil]

I would think most folks would agree that Storm 4/5 is overpowered in its capacity to knock-down, and deal out massive damage, as well as having a rather large cone for its AoE.

There was at a point a suggestion to make powers adjustable in their range/effect/cost/duration, with Storm being the focal point.

I think the majority would agree that some, if not all of the 4/5 abilities are over-powered (Protect, Tavion/Desann styles), or over-nerfed (in the case of Push 5).
I would say that if the 4/5 powers that are powerful are to remain the same in effect, they need to be extremely costly in XP and FP.

Ultimately the powers are still very much a WIP, with some 4/5 levels being moot (I think ST, Fury and Slow are still the most lagging).

Fabien just needs to gather a few folks who have a decent noodle on their shoulders and hash out some good (read as fair and balanced) changes to the powers, and implement them.
We've been sitting on v0.4 for a while now, and I'm thinking folks are going a little stir-crazy, with suggestions all-over the place when it comes to a few specific aspects of the mod/game, powers being the most noted.