Saber Style Survey

[Baelin Raddyx]

Baelin is trying to teach himself ataru, but his favorite form is Makashi.

[Ametha Tasia]

An explosive blend of Soresu and Djem So.

[Sared Kilvan]

Shock and Awe.

(Bits of Niman gleaned from Alkur over the years.)

[Johauna Darkrider]

Johauna is Ataru user.

[Alkur Tekeil]

An explosive blend of Soresu and Djem So.

The philosophy and principles of these two styles are very opposite though...

[Caleb Quintilian]

Thanks for the input so far though guys. Moving into philosophical discussion. Heres a question I pose to start us off.

What is style? Just in the sense of martial arts, or anything really. Don't theorize under the restriction of Star Wars Canon or JKA mechanics.

--Edit--

In my own opinion, style is a set pattern of tools or personal preference, to be sure. But I think the only reason style exists is simply because each individual is different in body and mind. Therefore, the number of styles are endless, as each person uses their own style that is unlike the style of anyone. Obviously the best "style" is that which is not bound by the restrictions of styles but rather that which can adapt to any situation flawlessly.

The best option is to be formless, to be like water. Water can flow calmly, or become a force to be reckoned with. Most importantly, water takes the shape of any container it fills because it is formless.

Now, this applies even to JKA. Even though there is a finite and uniform amount of cuts and chains you can perform, there is certainly a endless way of combining the way you move, acrobatics, change tempos (falsely labeled stances by the game) and I believe that everyone has there own style in that regard, even if it is under construction.

[Sasha Raven]

Style? Anything that defeats my enemy.

[Ruluk]

I understood the idea of questioning the different forms players catalogue their characters in. I find those things interesting to know and compare.

But when did this become a place for philosophical discussions? O_o

I would post my ideas, but I like discussing stuff like this live.

[Sared Kilvan]

Caleb: you get mad props for initiating this kind of discussion. Keep it up.


I personally believe that each style and form of combat is focused on providing a solid foundational approach to a situation. From there, once you've built that foundation, you would add walls, doors, and a roof, forming the 'whole' of that individual's combat expertise.

You see the same mentality in classical education. There is a foundation of knowledge built up (reading, writing, arithmetic) which then are combined and used to build up the more advanced stages of education (philosophy, history, sociology).

Because of this, I think the idea of a combat style being 'formless' is just as nonsensical as the idea of an educational system being formless. The idea of a being a fluid combatant is not something that is, or can be, built or progressed into directly.

The idea of a 'Formless' combatant loses a great deal of meaning in part because we've been exposed to entirely too many artistic depictions or renditions that coo, beckon, and romance this idea into our creative minds.

I personally believe that what we see as 'formless' (in regards to lightsaber combat), is in actuality an individual of trained and practiced maneuvers, from multiple (if not all) lightsaber forms, that the transition between each 'style' or position is so seamless, that the outside observer simply cannot tell the difference.

[Caleb Quintilian]

Exactly what I mean by formlessness, Sared! =) You could, in fact, consider it as formfullness. You'd be the most accomplished martial artists, especially as Jedi, if you devoted yourself to all forms of combat as well as the utilization of the Force so that you can flow seamlessly between forms and with the Force.

In light of Jedi Academy as a medium for our RP, which is a pretty advanced swordplay has. In RPmod, for single saber, we have six(?) tempos with seven cuts each. That's a lot of possibilities. You will find that being well versed in all tempos to the point being able to switch between them at almost a subconscious level and muscle memory.

Tempo, like rythm in music. A composer never writes a piece of music thinking he can never use whole notes if he is currently writing in quarter notes.

[Sared Kilvan]

In light of Jedi Academy as a medium for our RP, which is a pretty advanced swordplay has. In RPmod, for single saber, we have six(?) tempos with seven cuts each. That's a lot of possibilities. You will find that being well versed in all tempos to the point being able to switch between them at almost a subconscious level and muscle memory.

There are seven basic swings, yes. But there are many swings/maneuvers, particularly with staff and duals, that can only be executed as a follow-up to one or another swing(s), expanding that catalog of possibilities even further.

Tempo, like rythm in music. A composer never writes a piece of music thinking he can never use whole notes if he is currently writing in quarter notes.

This actually ties back into my comment on education. Being raised by a classically trained musician, I've always had a respect for those with dedication to practicing and improving their art. Now, I don't doubt that anyone with natural talent can pick up a banjo and make good music, but they only continue to do so with practice, hours of practice, that eventually becomes their own foundation of muscle memory and aural tuning. (e.g. Dennis Chambers, John Elton, Ray Charles)

[Caleb Quintilian]

Agreed!

There's so much within JKA to promote artistic expression and control of the system and when to use it. (Form Zero)

Those with musical inclinations will understand this concept in terms of a rhythm or beat. From our previous definitions, we can consider tempo in terms of time intervals, or the pattern of time. That is to say, if we know that any one movement in combat has a certain speed (or average speed), then it will have a specific amount of time it takes to cover the distance making up the movement itself; and if we take a second movement and, like you said Sared, chain it to the end of the first movement, that second movement has a distinct time interval as well. I'm not debunking the use of anything but single cuts, the chains/combos (whatever you want to call it) add another layer of art to the JKA saber system. Asides aside, repeating this process again with additional movements leads to an observable pattern based on the changes between each movement, which is fundamentally how we are able to differentiate between independent actions in combat.

A song is made up of notes, but there are full notes, half notes, quarter notes, eighth notes, and so on. The composer doesn't restrict himself, like I wrote last post, but rather he chooses the right note because that note fits the intent of the song at that moment. In other words, the composer thinks of every note as equally accessible at any given time, and lets the current state of the song combined with his artistic goal dictate what the next note will be. Thus, when we listen to music, we hear sounds that come quickly, sounds that come slowly, sounds that hang, and sounds that end fast. The same is true for singers with their changing speed of how they sing out lyrics and sounds, or painters who freely mix long and short brush strokes as they paint upon the canvas, or dancers who constantly change the speed and direction of their bodies to flow with the dance. I believe that applying this same mentality to one’s own philosophy of combat will, with training, increase the efficiency and effectiveness of every cut.

[Tomoran]

As a longtime saberist, I can tell you that one swing can be used in many different ways in many different situations. Two hardcore strong stance users will still look fairly different in spars even if there is a ceiling of comprehensible movements between the two of them where at a point it just looks like combos and dodges in the same general directions.

I'd hate to use the term but mindgames are a large factor of spars and timing and distance are everything. People who just slice and dice at each other are barely scraping the surface of the saber combat system. I understand that we as players have no inherent "Form" of combat but the philosophies of the traditional forms of combat in the canon of the Star Wars universe helps us apply characteristics to our roles and breathe a bit of life into how we spar, our attitudes and our priorities or actions.

More detail is almost always a good thing.

[Phillip Braden]

Johauna is Ataru user.

Heh, like EVERYONE knows that she uses Ataru heh.

Even though I'm not a member and possibly don't have a say in this but mine has to be.....Soresu because of it's defensive properties and Djem So/Shien for it's offensive/Defensive properties

[Alkur Tekeil]

I equate lightsaber combat to kung fu, both have multiple forms or disciplines, each with much of their own philosophy. But each individual form under the big umbrella has its own philosophy and principles, which is just a fancy way of saying and viewing the details and description of each of the forms.

For example, Shii-Cho's philosophy is a simplistic approach to lightsaber combat - dogging the opponent. The principle is equally as simple - direct swings, simplistic movements.

As for style... each individual's unique application and execution of a form, or perhaps lack thereof, would constitute style.