Class Balance (Proposal 3 Page 10, Updated 288.22)

[Imil C. Ucindus]

I dislike this current system. I do not see why anybody would go consular for OOC reasons because consulars get all of the force powers later then sentinel and the force pools and regen are too similar. I think the Guardians are fine, but I think the consulars should be able to unlock force powers earlier, and larger pools for higher levels.

Ask a Gaurdian what it's like to hardly able to use force powers in succession. You gotta know how it is to be able to comment correctly on it, sir.

I have no idea what your talking about. This would not inhibit guardians from using the force powers.

You said Guardians are fine.

[Olim Adasca]

Indeed, I mean, look at Rash when he fights all out, or when Jamus did. They were pretty up to par with Consulars.

[Baelin Raddyx]

Guardians have a smaller force pool, making it more difficult to use multiple force powers unlike Sentinels or Consulars.


Also, Rash is level 23(?), like somebody said earlier in this thread, there comes a point when game mechanics are no longer a factor.

[Imil C. Ucindus]

Guardians have a smaller force pool, making it more difficult to use multiple force powers unlike Sentinels or Consulars.

Exactly. I seen Rash take on Corinth plenty times. he was always flooded with those force powers and hardly could make a comeback with his force handicap. I never seen him win once against Corinth. They would have like 10 spars in a row.

[Tomoran]

I've talked to Soh about this and gotten all the information I need and will be submitting various proposals to the effects that he and I discussed in time.

The rest of you don't have to worry about this, but I WILL note that Guardians are extremely handicapped by their force pool. As it stands, against guardians, putting on a heal and using speed will mean you're at 0 force. Using speed will take half your pool and it won't start coming back until you turn it off. If the foe mind tricks you can be taken down to 30 immediately. Force Powers tend to add up and if a guardian's out of Force they don't have any way to defend themselves against most Force Powers lest they all invest heavily in Absorb.

If I am dueling Rash and he heals then jumps I can pretty much hold down storm and just wait for his hp to run out - this, of course, brings into play the balance issues with Storm, which I want to address as well (in addition to several force powers/etc.)

[Imil C. Ucindus]

Very nice to know. Can't wait to hear those proposals.

[Daereon]

Sounds great to me, good luck Tomo.

[Ruluk]

EDIT AGAIN: Yeah, I also noticed how Guardians get 350 total (of HP + Force) while consulars and sentinels get 400.

[Tomoran]

Proposal One

Changes necessary
-Grant double regeneration of Health and Force while standing still
-Force Sense degrades Force Regeneration Rates by 100/80/60/40/20%
-Force Speed degrades Force Regeneration Rates by 100/85/70/55/30%
-Force Protect, Absorb and Rage all reduce Force regeneration Rates by 100% at all levels
-Saber Throw base cost increased from 30 to 50, does not affect Force Regeneration Rate
-Force 'Hold' base cost increased to 50, Force Regeneration Rate reduced by 100/90/80/70/60%

The philosophy behind this proposal (the first of a few) is that the system doesn't need vast changes but should vary the classes more and reduce their survivability and avoid the early plateau that happens in late padawanhood and move it into knight career to enforce a more fragile sense of person. In general, this means that lower level characters are less powerful and are capable of less in general but by the time they grow into the latest levels they remain pretty much where they were before. The regeneration rates are intended to make Force Power usage a more tactical decision and health regeneration should encourage classes to engage less frantically and take their time, as well as to sort of effectively increase the total 'effective' hp and Force of classes by giving them the option to 'wait' out encounters.

In this proposal, Consulars become excessively fragile while Guardians become remarkably strong. Also, the base HP of all classes was lowered. Considering the fact that our 'soldier' account has only 30 hp, I could've seen a reason to start even lower but I can imagine how angry people would be if they died in less than 15 shots or 9 saber swipes.

Sentinel

Level / HP Max / Force / Total / Force Regen Rate (ms) / Health Regen Rate (ms)

1 / 30 / 50 / 80 / 2000 / 4000
2 / 35 / 55 / 90 / 1925 / 3925
3 / 40 / 60 / 100 / 1850 / 3850
4 / 45 / 65 / 110 / 1775 / 3775
5 / 50 / 70 / 120 / 1700 / 3700
6 / 55 / 75 / 130 / 1625 / 3625
7 / 60 / 80 / 140 / 1550 / 3550
8 / 65 / 85 / 150 / 1475 / 3475
9 / 70 / 90 / 160 / 1400 / 3400
10 / 75 / 95 / 170 / 1325 / 3325
11 / 80 / 100 / 180 / 1250 / 3250
12 / 85 / 105 / 190 / 1175 / 3175
13 / 90 / 110 / 200 / 1100 / 3100
14 / 95 / 115 / 210 / 1025 / 3025
15 / 100 / 120 / 220 / 950 / 2950
16 / 110 / 125 / 235 / 875 / 2875
17 / 120 / 130 / 250 / 800 / 2800
18 / 130 / 135 / 265 / 725 / 2725
19 / 140 / 140 / 280 / 650 / 2650
20 / 150 / 150 / 300 / 575 / 2575
21 / 160 / 160 / 320 / 500 / 2500
22 / 170 / 170 / 340 / 425 / 2425
23 / 180 / 180 / 360 / 350 / 2350
24 / 190 / 190 / 380 / 275 / 2275
25 / 200 / 200 / 400 / 200 / 2200

Guardian
1 / 30 / 50 / 80 / 2000 / 4000
2 / 40 / 52 / 92 / 1950 / 3900
3 / 50 / 54 / 104 / 1900 / 3800
4 / 60 / 56 / 116 / 1850 / 3700
5 / 70 / 58 / 128 / 1800 / 3600
6 / 80 / 60 / 140 / 1750 / 3500
7 / 90 / 62 / 152 / 1700 / 3400
8 / 100 / 64 / 164 / 1650 / 3300
9 / 110 / 66 / 176 / 1600 / 3200
10 / 120 / 68 / 188 / 1550 / 3100
11 / 130 / 70 / 200 / 1500 / 3000
12 / 140 / 72 / 212 / 1450 / 2900
13 / 150 / 74 / 224 / 1400 / 2800
14 / 160 / 76 / 236 / 1350 / 2700
15 / 170 / 78 / 248 / 1300 / 2600
16 / 190 / 80 / 270 / 1250 / 2500
17 / 210 / 85 / 295 / 1200 / 2400
18 / 220 / 90 / 310 / 1150 / 2300
19 / 230 / 95 / 325 / 1100 / 2200
20 / 240 / 100 / 340 / 1050 / 2100
21 / 250 / 105 / 355 / 1000 / 2000
22 / 260 / 110 / 370 / 950 / 1900
23 / 270 / 115 / 385 / 900 / 1800
24 / 280 / 120 / 400 / 850 / 1700
25 / 290 / 125 / 415 / 800 / 1600

Consular
1 / 30 / 50 / 80 / 2000 / 4000
2 / 33/ 60 / 93 / 1900 / 3950
3 / 36 / 70 / 106 / 1800 / 3900
4 / 39 / 80 / 119 / 1700 / 3900
5 / 42 / 90 / 132 / 1600 / 3850
6 / 45 / 100 / 145 / 1500 / 3800
7 / 48 / 110 / 158 / 1400 / 3750
8 / 51 / 120 / 171 / 1300 / 3700
9 / 54 / 130 / 184 / 1200 / 3650
10 / 57 / 140 / 197 / 1100 / 3600
11 / 60 / 150 / 210 / 1000 / 3550
12 / 63 / 160 / 223 / 900 / 3500
13 / 66 / 170 / 236 / 800 / 3450
14 / 69 / 180 / 249 / 700 / 3400
15 / 72 / 190 / 262 / 600 / 3350
16 / 75 / 210 / 285 /500 / 3300
17 / 80 / 230 / 310 / 400 / 3250
18 / 85 / 250 / 335 / 300 / 3200
19 / 90 / 270 / 360 / 200 / 3150
20 / 95 / 290 / 385 / 100 / 3100
21 / 100 / 310 / 410 / 50 / 3050
22 / 105 / 330 / 435 / 50 / 3000
23 / 110 / 350 / 460 / 50 / 2950
24 / 115 / 370 / 485 / 50 / 2900
25 / 120 / 390 / 510 / 50 / 2850

Force Power Balance
Force Jump
-Force Power cost reduced by 20% at all levels
-Levels 4/5 don't reduce fall damage if you land on your back
-Bonuses for height/speed at levels 4/5 changed to 25%/10% and 50%/20% respectively, as I find it silly that for 40 points you get to jump less than two feet higher from level 4 to 5.

Force Push and Pull
-Is never blocked from behind
-Levels 2+ cause knockdown at point blank 100% of the time (to avoid simply hurling people away that you intend to disable)
-Cooldowns increased by 1 second (You can honestly pull way too fast, way too often)

Force Speed
-Scale the speed increase over the five levels as well as duration (Silly that for 5 points I can enjoy the same speed you all can since I have infinite Force)

Force Sense
-Duration increased to infinite, Levels 1-3 must remain still to uphold, Levels 4-5 can move freely with Sense activated

Force Absorb
-Active Force cost at 5/5/10/10/15 Force a second, otherwise new regeneration rates will mean that it is essentially 'free', Duration likewise increased to infinite, though all levels may move with Absorb active

Force Protect
-Damage Reduced by 15/30/45/60/75% by level, kind of silly that Level 4-5 reduce NINETY PERCENT of damage (lol 5 damage saber swipes)
-Active Force cost at 2/4/6/8/10, duration increased to infinite

Force Mind Trick/Cloak
-Level 1/2/3/4 will break after 3/6/9/18 seconds, Level 5 remains indefinitely, all levels reduce regeneration by 250% while active

Force Heal
-Heals 20/40/60/80/100 health over 5 seconds at 50 Force Cost
-Level 1-3 animation changed to the 'kneel'
-Level 4-5 have no animation, Level 5 has no sound or effect

Heal Others
-Cost increased to 60 (I can honestly hold down heal others all day and never, ever run out of energy, seems silly)
-Heals another for 10/20/30/40/50 instantly, this effect degrades based on the number of targets, splitting evenly at levels 2-5, level 1 can only target a single person

Force Hold
-Levels 3-5 Duration increased to infinite, with active cost being 5 Force a second

Force Storm
-Cost to defend up to 2/4/6/8/10 FP a 'hit', value halved if one-handed lightning
-Lightning has 'knockback' at levels 3-4, and 'knockdown' at level 5, these effects only occur with two-handed lightning
-Damage reduced by 20% for levels 3-5

Force Rage
-Increases damage %, speed and animations by 10/20/30/40/50% for 3/6/9/12/15 seconds, cools down over 5 seconds, reducing damage and speed by 20%
-Health cost to maintain is 5/4/3/2/1 per second
-Costs no Force to use or maintain

Force Meld
-Cost increased to 60
-Heals another for 10/20/30/40/50 instantly, this effect degrades based on the number of targets, splitting evenly at levels 2-5, level 1 can only target a single person

Saber Offense
-Level 4 required for usage of 'staff'

Saber Defense
-Level 4 required for usage of 'dual'

I'll post the next proposal in a few days when I work it out.

[Phillip Braden]

That would mean alot of editting of the force powers which may take time for Soh, but if it's possible I support this idea, nice thinking Tom.

But what about the Knights that are high level and use Staffs or duals and are only at level 3 for offence/defence?

Mind you, it may stop people messing with staff's and dual blades when they are alone on the server.

[Tomoran]

I'm not suggesting these things because I think they'll be done overnight, I am suggesting these things to try to gauge where I think powers and classes should be. I want to see what others have to say/what they think about powers in terms of strength/weakness, etc.

[Phillip Braden]

If storm was editted so it can only be used at Knight rank, it would be interesting since it's a highly dangerous power for a padawan to even consider using so limiting it like that seems interesting.

[Sai Akiada]

I'll need to go through it all again to fully grasp it but I do like the idea of Att/Def4 before one can use staff/duel, if it is possible.

[Tomoran]

I'll need to go through it all again to fully grasp it but I do like the idea of Att/Def4 before one can use staff/duel, if it is possible.

Not possible within an enforced by the mod policy itself, moreso a change in JEDI policy as to who we allow to use these weapons.

[Baelin Raddyx]

If storm was editted so it can only be used at Knight rank, it would be interesting since it's a highly dangerous power for a padawan to even consider using so limiting it like that seems interesting.

I'm assuming, with council permission, a Master can teach his very advanced Padawan storm. Besides, it doesn't have to be used in an aggressive way, look at Corinth's night light power. SPOILER: Baelin fancies to learn storm because it help him with his inventing!!





Excellent suggestions, Tomoran, really.