Class Balance (Proposal 3 Page 10, Updated 288.22)

[Sebastin Creed]

So, what are the benefits to a Consular in this proposal in essence?

Because so far all I can really see is that I'll go down in one stroke and that all my force powers are limited or changed to the same as every other.

Unless I'm missing something my Consular class gives me as a balanced benefit to the extreme HP of a Guardian. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Guardians being like a tank or something that's realistic, but a strong consular force user should be able to battle him using the force on an even keel.

So far all I can see is what restrictions I'm going to receive and the HP going down (If I'm remembering my HP total currently lol).

___

It's a good read but I'm not sure what the main changes are or how this benefits me when you said the Consular become excessively fragile.

EDIT: P.S Very good work on it though, a lot of thought obviously put into it - would just like more information on how this balances things? Because as far as I can tell, I keep getting annihilated in most gun and sword battles as it is, I don't want to become even more fragile than I already am.

[Iverian Prey]

Change what you want, it won't change the fact that people play the exploits of JA and some are good and some are bad.

In the end, I'll still just poke ya

[Tomoran]

Long post about Consular issues

Well, it's difficult to see in the numbers but with these changes the only people who can use Force for more than a 'few' seconds are Consulars, meaning that in order to utilize protect for more than a few seconds you're going to need to be one of us fancy freaks, and if you reduce 45% of incoming damage then your 100 hp becomes 150 hp immediately, the ability to restore force through heal means that you can continuously recharge yourself during battle and I also wanted to suggest a form of shield recharge to keep us from being instamurdered but I haven't quite worked out the details on it yet. A sentinel at level 15, with the proposed numbers, has a Force Regeneration Rate of 2950 and a pool of 120. This means that they regen ONE point of Force every 2.95 seconds unless they use absorb to artificially enhance it by converting a portion of damage into Force (again, numbers need to be worked on) and Guardians have even less to work with, Consulars, on the other hand, at 15, have 190 Force and regenerate 1 point of Force every .6 seconds.

So it's not really a matter of 'omg stop spamming heal' at this point, it's more that we're the only people programmed to do it and can still be taken down by burst fire. If I end up having 85 hp, I might get knocked out by a good saber swipe, but it happens.

To avoid issues in friendly spars, I really wish the 'duel' command would pit two people against each other at 100/100 as if it were JO or JA standard.

EDIT: This isn't a smattering of balance suggestions based on the saber damage system, which is pants on head retarded. I am avoiding changing the damage of anything and attempting to work our survivability/utility to fit the parameters.

[Sebastin Creed]

Alright then, I'd atleast like to have a trial run if anything so we can always revert back to the original programming (not sure how easy that is for Soh to do depending if its an easy copy paste job).

But I suppose it helps when slow down the speed at which the guardians protect absorb and speed towards me jumping like lunatics. I just think that if Consulars can be taken down with one or two good swipes we should at least be able to toggle on and off, protect in a skillful fashion so we can at least be offensive as well as defensive (Personal preference meh).

Look forward to hearing more Tomo.

[Cynthia]

I absolutely hate this plan. I don't mind the force power and regen rate changes but the councilors are getting WAY too weak.

I would support a plan that got rid of the class system and finds a new means to do so. For example a point system. Where each member is given a certain number of points when they level up to buy hp, fp, and unlocking certain force powers. But it's all on a personal level. Does anyone understand what I'm saying. Would something like this work?

[Sahio Xekma]

Two ideas I've worked on before the current class system was made by Corinth and I was Per-level ability

So, each time you'd level up, you'd have enough point to level 1 power, no matter the level (like most RPGs out there). You could pick a new power or add one level of a power you already knew.

To do this, all powers would be 95 XP, and each level would be 100xp (numbers could be changed, obviously). Each level would leave out 5xp, and give certain levels a 2 power grant.

the other idea, which can be combined to any form of class, is the 'long pool'.

Instead of having powers like Hold or Storm cost 50 FP, it would cost maybe 5-10... But the regen would be 1 point after say 1:48 mins for a Guardian.

With a static pool (all classes) of 200 points, with top level Consular regaining their 200 points in say 2 hours, the Sentinel in 4 and the Guardian in 6. You'd have also the HP/Shield factor in.

On a more in depth idea, it would require the division of Powers, the Physical (Jump,Speed, Protect, Heal, Rage) and the Mind (Sense, Meld, Drain, Mind trick, Storm) and Commons (Push/Pull, Hold).

Each category would be most efficient for the 'right' class. Say a Guardian would have Speed being more effective/less costly on his Force Pool than for a Consular.

Also, there is the idea of adding 'power-based' skills (removing the Classes that way too).

Force Focus : +25 per level, for a 200 max, 75 base.
Endurance(hp): +25 per level, for a 200 max (400 total), 75 base.

The beauty of it is to AVOID having high levels be able to pick everything.

Have it so you can only have so much powers, currently there is 90 powers total (18 * 5 level each). Adding the 2 'attributes' above, you'd have 20*5, making 100 'powers' to choose from.

Have a 'stat' cap at 60-75 powers. Then, you'll have variation, selection and a bit of scratching your head when you have to level up your character.

With the 1 power per level in mind, you could have a 50 to 70 level template, with 60 powers (all powers/attributes at level 3) being 5 700xp and 75 being 7 125, depending on how many power maximum you wish to chose.

There is also the 'naturally' rare powers : making it so that no template can have more than say 3 Level 5 powers, but that would be enforcing it unnaturally.

This is just my two creds;

Good work also Tomoran to aid on this aging system;

¬ The old coot

[Baelin Raddyx]

I absolutely hate this plan. I don't mind the force power and regen rate changes but the councilors are getting WAY too weak.

*consulars


Also, how would that make Consulars weak? he just gave an excellent case. I want to see a reason if there is an argument against it.....

[Azrael]

Also, how would that make Consulars weak? he just gave an excellent case. I want to see a reason if there is an argument against it.....

[Fane Ornn'ila]

I'll need to go through it all again to fully grasp it but I do like the idea of Att/Def4 before one can use staff/duel, if it is possible.

Not possible within an enforced by the mod policy itself, moreso a change in JEDI policy as to who we allow to use these weapons.

I think it is possible, MB2 had it so that you couldn't select staff or duals unless you have attack three. (it also made blue slower with offense 2 )

Though I'd rather restrict it to rank than offense level.

As for the rest, need to give it some thought.

[Maloush]

Long post about Consular issues

Well, it's difficult to see in the numbers but with these changes the only people who can use Force for more than a 'few' seconds are Consulars, meaning that in order to utilize protect for more than a few seconds you're going to need to be one of us fancy freaks, and if you reduce 45% of incoming damage then your 100 hp becomes 150 hp immediately, the ability to restore force through heal means that you can continuously recharge yourself during battle and I also wanted to suggest a form of shield recharge to keep us from being instamurdered but I haven't quite worked out the details on it yet. A sentinel at level 15, with the proposed numbers, has a Force Regeneration Rate of 2950 and a pool of 120. This means that they regen ONE point of Force every 2.95 seconds unless they use absorb to artificially enhance it by converting a portion of damage into Force (again, numbers need to be worked on) and Guardians have even less to work with, Consulars, on the other hand, at 15, have 190 Force and regenerate 1 point of Force every .6 seconds.

So it's not really a matter of 'omg stop spamming heal' at this point, it's more that we're the only people programmed to do it and can still be taken down by burst fire. If I end up having 85 hp, I might get knocked out by a good saber swipe, but it happens.

To avoid issues in friendly spars, I really wish the 'duel' command would pit two people against each other at 100/100 as if it were JO or JA standard.

EDIT: This isn't a smattering of balance suggestions based on the saber damage system, which is pants on head retarded. I am avoiding changing the damage of anything and attempting to work our survivability/utility to fit the parameters.

I beg to differ. I'm a Sentinel and in a spar, I'm ALWAYS using protect/absorb. It's Maloush's specialty.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of the proposal, simply because it would take forever to implement, it would cost Soh months of work, and I'm on the notion of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Sure, it may be unbalanced, but simple techniques can be used to counter most of the issues.

[Zeak Dystiny]

Not a fan of some of the things suggested, wondering what the other proposals will turn out like though.

[Olim Adasca]

Why change what works?

[Sebastin Creed]

Not to mention the fact that it is easy to counter most things if you know how.

A guardian with a high level of absorb could beat my best attack as a consular which is most likely Storm if I ever get it.

Though, with a guardian charging me down with protect and absorb only needing one good slice to end it would take me out easily.

Best bet I have at this point, is to out run him until he has to cease his force powers or hope he can't use force sense to which I mind trick him, at which point I'll probably have no force to use against him anyways due to all my jumping and force speeding to get away. So I'll have to drop speed and try evade him on foot without any force power to regen then fight back once the guardian runs out of juice.

Unless I can match them blow for blow there really isn't much a Consular can do unless you are a few levels below, in which place i think its REALISTIC that the Consular would crush them.

[Alkur Tekeil]

I thought the mechanics of your proposal were good, Ron. And would rather see them implemented than what we currently have.

My only concern is the value of some of the things. IMO, shields/hp has a much higher value than Force regen, or how much an ability costs to use and maintain.

[Imil C. Ucindus]

Only thing about proposal 1 is the force push pull is unblockable from behind. I think if a Master of telekinisis should be able to defend against an attack from all sides especially if the attackers tele powers are weaker. Just seems realistic to me.