Class Balance (Proposal 3 Page 10, Updated 288.22)

[Eugen Darkrider]

I for one like the idea.

As far as I understood.

Doing this would make the Guardians pretty much focus on saber. Due to the low regen and force pool they would not be able to spam absorb/protect which would make them almost impossible to beat.

On the other side. Consulars get faster regen and bigger force pool. so they can pretty much spam absorb/protect and try to fight their way out or win the spar/fight.

(I generalized that. So I did not meant to go at someone in particular but just giving an example)

Though. If the balancing of classes happens. Then we should also pretty much RP out the class. -So to say- Why I say this?
I'll give this example:
If I am very good in saber combat. And I don't need a lot of hp/sp. I can go as a consular and get my part of Faster Regen and Force powers.

Just my two cents.
But in the end. I like the Idea Tomo.

[Tomoran]

It's true, someone who is good with lightsabers can still choose to be a Consular to reap the benefits that Consulars get, but the point is that anybody can pick any path and have the potential to win if they are balanced enough.

But -everybody- has the capacity to do these things and for that reason game balance isn't fitted around what one good person might do with a system. The idea is to make the classes unique but viable against each other and viable in situations that make sense for them. Guardians will shine in combat, Consulars will shine in utility and Sentinels will take the middle road, gaining the ability to do both, but not as good as either of the specialists.

The next proposal will be a multiclass proposal. Look for it in a few days.

[Tomoran]

Only thing about proposal 1 is the force push pull is unblockable from behind. I think if a Master of telekinisis should be able to defend against an attack from all sides especially if the attackers tele powers are weaker. Just seems realistic to me.

The nice thing about having people interested in how your system works is say you implement something like this, you play with it for a short while, if it is deemed to be unfitting for the flow of things or seems generally poorly placed, you change it with the next balance patch. I do, however, think these changes should be fluid and constantly tweaking things to a point where, mystically, nothing needs to be changed anymore because everything seems fine where it is.

As it stands, though, and I don't think it's just me, a few things could use some changing. So these are just suggestions from my crazy desk.

[Alkur Tekeil]

Only thing about proposal 1 is the force push pull is unblockable from behind. I think if a Master of telekinisis should be able to defend against an attack from all sides especially if the attackers tele powers are weaker. Just seems realistic to me.

At this point, though, its not (wholly) about what is realistic to the setting, but rather how gameplay is balanced.

With the way Ron suggested changing pull and push, and the chances of having your opponent's back to you, in a high paced duel, the chances of scoring such a knockdown effect is unlikely. If there is NO chance of success at all, especially against a higher level opponent, there isn't much point in utilizing a game for our role playing. The game mechanics and the depth and width of such is what makes role playing dynamic, rather than interactive story telling.

It also moves towards a more contemplative regard towards combat in JKA. Players are required to be aware of what vulnerabilities they have, else they lose outright.

[Fane Ornn'ila]

If you choose a specific class based on the thought of 'oh I can saber good enough so I'll take advantage of the consular' then who ever does that is here for the wrong reasons, not to mention it won't make much sense IRP, being a consular with mad saber skills.

[Zeak Dystiny]

won't make much sense IRP, being a consular with mad saber skills.

Wait, why?

[Daereon]

I don't see how that matters. Just because you're a consular doesn't mean you won't have decent skill with a lightsaber. Remember that you shouldn't let your class dictate what all your character is skilled in. It's more of a base foundation. Now will a Consular be as skilled with a saber as a Guardian? Most likely no, but then again it comes down to the two individual characters you are looking at.

[Alkur Tekeil]

If you choose a specific class based on the thought of 'oh I can saber good enough so I'll take advantage of the consular' then who ever does that is here for the wrong reasons, not to mention it won't make much sense IRP, being a consular with mad saber skills.

And such is a concern for player skill based games of role playing. And this is where it is left up to the players - and perhaps the governing body of the group - to maintain a sense of suitability. And from what I've seen, most gaming oriented players tend towards the guardian class, regardless.

[Tomoran]

I detest the argument that people are here for the right/wrong reasons. The Council decides that, not you. Let he who is without altruistic purposes in JEDI cast the first stone.

Yeah, I won't see many flying. Our characters are always flawed conceptions, there's nothing you can do to create a perfect character. Nobody ever does and nobody ever will. We accept this because we are working within the confines of our imaginations and understanding that what we expect is different than what others expect.

If I come to JEDI and pick a guardian because I like to spar and it's a fun way for me to spend time and I do so while playing a character that I created specifically for JEDI but who is more aligned towards following the Force in a devout fashion and being closely connected to it then so be it.

The issue of class balance has NOTHING to do with player skill, it has to do with attempting to find a reasonable set of systems to let people engage in the roleplay that we hold sacred. Changes like making sense last until toggled off is a matter of convienence and an attempt to increase roleplay so that I don't have to press 'g' every minute or so.

Splitting hairs about the 'right' reason to be here is silly and pedantic. I might not be here for the reasons - to you. You might not be here for the right reasons ... to someone else.

Which, again, has nothing to do with this thread or what we are trying to do here, which is help improve the system.

[Fane Ornn'ila]

won't make much sense IRP, being a consular with mad saber skills.

Wait, why?

I meant it in the context of a player picking consular because they are insanely good with saber already OOCly, and don't need the 'extras' to be among the 'top' with their character. Their focus isn't on saber arts, generally, but would still act like it, regardless of their class.

Don't we pick a class for what we feel resembles our character best, not based on how we play everyday Jk3.

[Tomoran]

You pick whatever you want, frankly. There aren't any class picking police, as far as I know. How much you do or do not reflect that is up to you. If it weren't, then someone else would choose for you.

[Sebastin Creed]

I thought so, I used to always be a saber arts kinda player and was generally always good at it.

Though I picked Consular to get away from it, be a bit fragile (though boy was I surprised and how fragile when I faced players with guys). Seb was always supposed to be focused on his Force, my hopes was to achieve in making him one of the greats like those before him.

I have sort of lost my touch with a saber as a result of this, but I understand and agree Fane's view point does happen. Regardless.

I hope people pick a class for their character and not their skills, normally ones style of play in the game matches that or their character and personality.

[Ametha Tasia]

I find the current proposal interesting.

[Serris K'Ral]

Keep it the same, keep it simple, I like it how it is currently and don't see why we should bother changing it, since it really isn't that important and doesn't require a five page debate about it.

[Daereon]

We're trying to change it because most people "do" have an issue with how it is. Could make a huge list about a lot of disadvantages with the current system, but I don't see much need considering several reasons have already been stated in the past five pages.