So, you wanted it, you got it! The
UBER LONG POST FROM RULUK!!
Disclaimer: Anything expressed afterwards is solely my opinion (or... is it?). I just wanted to share it with you. Oh, and I always love that you do read these long posts till the end.
OMG I freaking did an essay. Ah well, I hope you do read it... xD
Amoné wrote:We're all batting for the same team here and we're here to discuss possibilities, not to blindly conform to ideas we disgree with.
I will start with this quote to tell you that, in the end, "bat on the same team" and "disagree" at the same time is indeed possible. Usually, as you might have noticed, trouble comes when disagreements turn into endless discussions of 2-6 pages, with the same content being repeated over and over again. But in the end, it's not that big of a deal... we're not meant to live happily ever after anyways.
There'd be no fun in that!
This time, we got an interesting discussion about one of those themes that never really get a conclusion. If I recall correctly, the discussion went from making Force Powers more expensive, to current abuse of Force Powers, to current abuse of admin commands, to the lack of responsibility and matureness when talking about a Force template.
Tomoran wrote:So, cries of abuse, Knight faults aside, the issue is higher XP costs? And that people are being punished for roleplaying?
Well, it all summarizes up to the apparent root problem,
Eugen Darkrider wrote:RP should not be dictated by game mechanics. But no one should abuse the RP to be more advanced then he actually is.
, and when planting the solution, we ask,
Sebastin Creed wrote:...what can be done about it that meets most of the needs?
Strict Admin?
Transparency?
Rules of Role Play?
Then, for answering, a wise approach could be to think of
where the problem is lying. Is it on the masters for bad leadership? or bad example? is it on the students for being unresponsible XP scavengers? Truth is,
Tomoran wrote:And what can knights/masters do about students dropping points into things? They can't modify rpmod accounts to adjust max templates of students, and trust me, students who create wonky templates or roleplay bizarre power capacities are only digging themselves hilariously deep graves.
We hold the Knights and Masters responsible. We also hold the students responsible.
and we get to see, that effectively, we are just blaming each other constantly. Who, then, is responsible?
Who is that person we all talk about that keeps abusing constantly? It can't be any of us who have spoken so far, because we all are clearly against it. Then who?
If 80% of the people around here have posted in this thread, it's my guess that they do care to get this place better. Then who is really doing this? Who wants to make this place worse, if all of us are against it?
As a bold guess, I'll tell that
we're not really practicing what we preach. Stop blaming on each other, and
start looking into yourself. All of you. Me included. No need to keep blaming for now. Let's simply get this place better, together. The rest will come in by itself.
There's this other option, where we impose some control over the template. However, we conclude that
Amoné Fayden wrote:This is removing the freedom of choice and herding us down a narrow leveling experience.
and
Amoné wrote:I just feel Force Power allocation is something that should be self-maintained
Well, I agree there, and say that if we seriously get into the business, we can definitely trust ourselves.
Heck, if it was a matter of all of us being immature, I say forcing templates up is a good idea. But, in the opposite side (which I believe we should reach), we would be conscious of what we do with out template, and all powers could even cost the exact same thing. We wouldn't even need XP, because we would be mature enough to use a power ONLY when we have learned it.
So let's see what we can do! First, let's remember that, as we all know, a thing we all need, and we're all constantly improving, is RP skills... We come to this problem:
Aslyn wrote:...gameplay is secondary to RP, but that doesn't mean you can use the gameplay mechanics as a crutch, to offer you an advantage you otherwise wouldn't have. If you don't have a skill, don't go suggesting otherwise, and definitely don't go simulating it through emotes or admin commands. Ultimately, that's cheating, and is frankly an example of bad RP. Your template dictates your skill set - it's up to you to determine what skills you have, and use those skills only, because that's what your character has learned, and that's what available to you.
Anyone using Force Powers they haven't bought or aren't on their template are basically Power-gaming or GMing. That's not something we're supposed to tolerate around here, and that needs to stop happening. Keep it in mind, people.
He gives quite an important advice. Most of it, I agree with, except for
the green text... Well, let's take a
look at it backwards. Why not, say, try to handle a more conscious, more mature RP skill set first? What's with the urge to have all the powers you imagined? You'll get them eventually, no need to go all frenzy to get them.
You won't die if you wait a little bit. Take it more calmly, and instead focus on the other fun aspects of RPing, cause there are many.
Illrian Damaris wrote:If people want to stop all the power-leveling, they need to stop abusing their admin abilities first.
This is but one step of removing all this power-levelling. If we want to solve this so much, let's fix it, all of us, together, as the team we're meant to be.
However, why not do the other choice, of forcing the control of the template by increasing XP costs for everything? Because
Eugen Darkrider wrote:Maxing the XP, on a system that is not even finished. Not only limits the RP, But makes one go xp frenzy to get that power (leveling up while doing that) that he learned IC wise. And second. Someone told me your level says how strong you are...
and
Alkur Tekeil wrote:We should be focusing on finalizing the powers before we bother with any sort of XP and/or class system.
So that's my view. I really hope that we get to recognize any and all RP mistakes within us, gradually, and start fixing them. Because we can. It's just a matter of making the choice!
==========
But enough of this long talk, let's remember that
Tomoran wrote:this is a thread about suggestions to address the lack of balance in RPMod's current class configuration.
So, let me do some comments on the 3rd proposal itself, leaving this template issue partially aside.
Tomoran wrote:Also, the fact that by level 25 every master knows everything about every force power in our template seems silly.[...]Around level 18-19 basically everybody has most of what they want and they just start tossing into whatever else - things aren't expensive enough.
Well, you're right, in that by lvl 25, you get it all, and it would seem logical that by lvl 19 you have the XP needed for everything you originally needed. So far, I agree that giving high-level powers a higher cost seems reasonable, especially for the 4th and 5th levels, which, let's face it, only special cases should learn.
But there are two things to note about this. First, we have to consider that right now, only one person among us is practically at level 25. A very small amount are level 20+. And we know that most people seem to get bored or quit before reaching high levels. Considering what I just said, I don't really see the all-powerful 25-level character as an issue, since very few would ever get it, and it would happen after RL years of being in this community.
Second, as Amoné said it somewhere else, it's not a matter of having the XP to buy a power. It's a matter of having learned that power in RP. And, a single session wouldn't make you learn anything at all. If you want, let's ask a Shaolin Monk how long does it take to control an animal mind, or break the unbreakable, or such outstanding abilities.... JEDI might have midichlorians, but I haven't seen them become super-powerful just because of that. They need training... years of training, which would be
months of RL rping. Maybe waiting two months for a single power is too much, but having it in a week is the exact opposite; it's just too little.
So, as I said before, take it slow, no need to haste, and realize that having 100 free XP doesn't mean that you have to spend it all. Save it till you really earn a power. It's not like you'll lose the XP if you don't use it right away. My own Force template is a proof of it, and I'm not the only one.
That's my proposal:
let XP accumulate in your pool.
Tomoran wrote:Don't think it's possible to make the powers cost more based on class.
Well, if people don't like my suggestion of changing ourselves, and we eventually have to force it, I think that this would actually be a nice idea. It's not possible right now as is, but I'm quite certain that it can be applied, if Soh codes it that way.
Amoné Fayden wrote:Just because Speed has "little" change as it levels, should not be reason to make it out to be a super-difficult skill to learn. It should be fairly simple for in initiate to learn in a short time.
Well, again, if all of this is ignored, I have to say that you're right. I prefer speed to have bigger change between levels than make it so expensive, since it doesn't seem that hard compared to other powers.
That's it!
Oh, and maybe you didn't notice, but I just managed to make all of your discussions go to the same direction, by quoting all of you in a single post. You are, in a way, agreeing to the same thing. Maybe a little modified, but my point is, we *Can* get along if we try to.