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Force Powers: Force Bonds

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:41 pm
by Sared Kilvan
Affects: Force Powers - General

Summary: Force Bonds allow a more coherent connection between two beings. Likewise, a 'broken' bond is a source of pain and disconnection. It is not an alternate form of communication.

Suggestion: Players that have bonds between them would gain extra benefit from Heal Other and Force Meld. Players with 'broken' bonds would cause a small overall amount of damage to each other (saber strikes, upper ranks of hold, storm, slow, etc., something in the range of an additional 5%-10%). Also, remove the bond chat channel, as this is no more than a glorified PM system.

Implementation: Unsure.

References: Wookiepedia: 'Force Bonds'

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:44 pm
by Delmi N'jork
I like the idea of the extra benefit for Meld and Heal Others, that's a good idea. I though, however, I do not agree with removing the chat. Part of Force Bonds is Telepathic.

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:52 pm
by Aslyn Denethorn
Yes, but telepathy is a pretty rare skill and, even with a strong Force Bond (such as between Luke and Mara-Jade Skywalker), actual 'spoken' telepathy was rare. It was used mostly to provide a...sense of what the other person was thinking.

Personally, I'm against this, purely because Force Bonds are supposed to be rare and unusual - adding benefits to it would simply open the doors for considerable abuse.

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:00 pm
by Delmi N'jork
Telepathy isn't only "spoken". There other things that would be considered Telepathic. But we're not here to debate that.

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:05 pm
by Alkur Tekeil
Aslyn wrote:Yes, but telepathy is a pretty rare skill and, even with a strong Force Bond (such as between Luke and Mara-Jade Skywalker), actual 'spoken' telepathy was rare.
From the Wookieepedia Telepathy article wrote:Every Force user, Jedi or Sith, was able to use it.

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:11 pm
by Aslyn Denethorn
I agree with you, Delmi, I'm just saying, the risk of abuse is massive.

As for that, Alkur, I doubt the veracity of it. It's not referenced - it's an assumption, and not one that holds, judging by the SW literature. Only Jedi in the NJO set and onwards displayed Telepathic ability, aside from Luke Skywalker himself in ESB/Vader in RotJ, and those two were both understood to be far stronger than the majority of Force Users.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:44 am
by Sebastin Creed
Telepathy wrote:Guys, we aren't here to debate the state of Telepathy - it happens regardless of references but kids technically shouldnt' be adapt at it unless they are a mutant.
As for the Force Bonds, I agree that they should be rare - I agreed to one with Azra'el during our training because of the way Shimi was training us and because of the way our visions of our character complimented each other in our missions at times. We tend to use this Bond as a sort of connection through our senses and to some degree Telepathy. I thought this was supported in the fact we practically grew up together training... what I don't agree with is the whole;

"Oh your my bestest friend! Let's have a force bond! Yeeeyee"

::Mega Force Destroy::

I'm afraid benefits such as this may lead to abuse as was stated before me, with everyone trying to find that special someone. It's a good idea sure, but if it was implemented it would have to be governed by the council before yet another piece of lore is ruined.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:52 am
by Delmi N'jork
I understand a Force Bond between Master and Apprentice not being that uncommon. But if two Padawans go on a mission together a few times...that does not equal a Force Bond.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:26 am
by Amoné Fayden
Aslyn wrote: Personally, I'm against this, purely because Force Bonds are supposed to be rare and unusual - adding benefits to it would simply open the doors for considerable abuse.
Fully agree.
People often create bonds with others just because they are "pals".
That's not really how they're supposed to work.

Adding "perks" from Force Bonds will just see an increase in the amount of unnecessary and illogical Force Bonds.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:30 am
by Sebastin Creed
Delmi wrote:I understand a Force Bond between Master and Apprentice not being that uncommon. But if two Padawans go on a mission together a few times...that does not equal a Force Bond.
You'd be surprised.

Shimi put forth mine and Azra'el's bond as I said, and I felt it was justified the amount of time we spent as Padawan Brothers. That I could see, and I suppose a true Master and Apprentice bond could be supported as well...

I can just see it now though, the amount of requests coming through...

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:19 am
by Sared Kilvan
[IMHO}What bonds are approved and how the mod affects these bonds are two separate things.[/IMHO]

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:27 am
by Olim Adasca
Sared Kilvan wrote:[IMHO}What bonds are approved and how the mod affects these bonds are two separate things.[/IMHO]
Exactly, also considering the fact that Force Bond probably need a form of endorsement from members themselves, the Council wanting to be informed and all.
I support the first part, just not the removal of the Telepathy system, as it can still be used for divulging emotional stress, for example, or imminent danger.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:50 am
by Amoné Fayden
Sared Kilvan wrote:[IMHO}What bonds are approved and how the mod affects these bonds are two separate things.[/IMHO]
True, from a distance, but the point is that Force Bonds were always a "gimmick" that really served no purpose beyond RP.

Adding game mechanics to it will (likely) see an increase in the amount of people applying for one.

Then it's down to High Council integrity.

So in all honesty, i'd rather there not be a metaphorical carrot dangling infront of people's noses tempting them into bad decisions for promises of spar-advantages.


As always, this is just my humble opinion!

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:49 am
by Tomoran
Force Bonds make sense to some characters. To others they don't. For instance, I believed it made sense for my character to have a Force Bond considering who he is, what his training is and how he interacts with specific others.

I don't, however, believe that it'd make sense for him to get Drain 3, even if it is a fantastic tool. In the end, you cherry pick little things and details to flesh out your character, who they are and what they do. You shouldn't attempt to take things that might benefit you simply for the sake of their benefit if the nature of the perk does not fully apply to your character.

Though force bonds are "Free" they should require substantial work in the first place to establish and certain individuals simply aren't going to be prone to making them. I'm not certain how we would "break" bonds in JEDI and the say_bond channel is optional.

The only changes I think need to be made in regards to heal others and meld are their costs being raised to 50-60 from the current 25, which makes little sense to me given that healing YOURSELF costs 50 but healing another person for 50 instantly costs 25 energy.

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:39 am
by Amoné Fayden
Tomoran wrote:You shouldn't attempt to take things that might benefit you simply for the sake of their benefit if the nature of the perk does not fully apply to your character.
That's all I was trying to say.

My only worry (as always!) is the oh-so-common retconning or U-turning of RP to account for sudden game-side advantages.
For example: Applying XP to untrained skills, Taking red-stance ASAP for easy spars. Or in this case, applying for Force Bonds for benefits.

The usuals!

Anyway I didn't want to diffuse the topic. I just wanted to explain why I voted against it. Sorry for the diversion.

I'm done! :)