Tomoran's Class Revamp (Not Finished)

[Tomoran]

For those who only recently joined us, I want to once again emphasize the linear progression in the new levelling system.

In the old classes.dat, A Guardian's HP levels peaked very early

Level 2 52
Level 4 56
Level 6 61
Level 8 67
Level 10 75
Level 12 120
Level 14 180
Level 16 203

There was monumental growth shifted towards the 11-15 transition.

In the classes.dat I am proposing, classes will gain the same amount of HP/FP every level from 1-25.

They will also start lower.

Level 2 36
Level 4 52
Level 6 68
Level 8 84
Level 10 100
Level 12 116
Level 14 132
Level 16 148

Yeah? So? Why?

A few reasons:

• I wanted it to be the general rule that higher level accounts have better stats than lower level accounts to reflect experience and skill in-character.
• Doing it this way allowed me to make the growth of all classes based on an equal value system.
• Makes certain classes better at certain things than others to fit their specifications.

The hope is that by making PC (Player Characters) more frail, there will be more of an incentive to be interdependent and find ways to get through situations by allocating the resources of the people you have with you. Most noticeably, I want this to be in the form of Knights shepherding their students. It's perhaps easy to start up a mission and say, "Well, you're going to have to fight dudes and it won't be tough if I am here so I am going to Kyle Katarn out of this B for half an hour" but we should be working together.

Of course, I don't want to have to make every outing into a 5-man instance. LF2M ALZOC CAVES NID HEELER. The 'balanced' classes should have a good chance at getting through most things. Everybody will have a part to play. I hope.

[Delmi N'jork]

The one thing that really really bothers me about this set up is the level of which certain classes get the higher up sense levels. I understand why a Illusionist would get it much earlier than the rest of the classes- that makes sense. But I strongly disagree with certain classes getting level 4/5 sense so late. Realistically speaking, for some of them it makes absolutely no sense at all. I would really like to see that changed.

[Tomoran]

Understandably so.

Level 3 sense will grant the 'dodge' effect against snipers and concussion rifle alternate fire and allow an individual to sense beings (without identification) for a good distance (unless the map has portals ... can't ... really do much about that)

Level 4 sense gives the identifiers over the people's names and breaks level 4 Mind Trick.

Level 5 only gives the ability to break level 5 mind trick.

Now, the question is what were the factors I used to decide the prevalence of mind trick/sense in growth?

All powers are a primary only once.

Sense and Mind Trick are both the primary powers of the illusionist. They are the masters of sensing and being not sensed by others. This is their strongest suit, and they should play to it whenever they can.

As for secondaries ...

Sense is a secondary to Watchman, Lorekeeper, Healer and Sage.

They get sense 4 at 19, 17, 18 and 17 respectively. (Consulars and Sentinels get sense 4 at 16)

The other three, Warden Peacekeeper and Battlemaster get it much later. 21, 22 and 21 respectively.

Now, we have to compare the growth of Sense to the growth of Mind Trick.

Sage and Watchman are the only classes with Mind Trick as a secondary. They obtain it at 19 and 18 respectively. This means that by level 20, 3 specialists can use Mind Trick 4 to hide from 3 other specialists.

But the sense/mind trick battle is only part of the equation.

Ideally, I was hoping to change sense to have name detection at levels 2-5 and have vastly different range/the ability to break mind trick.

So while you might find Sense 4 integral to certain things (it certainly helps in missions to identify beings) if you are worried that it will be easier to manipulate with mind trick then keep in mind that most of the non-sense obtainers have availability to drain.

Drain on a mind tricked individually will wipe them dry. They cannot regenerate Force while mind-tricked and will essentially have to 'sit' until their mind trick breaks.

[Amoné Fayden]

I speak for myself here entirely but I'm not fussed with Sense either way. It's far from my favourite JKA Force Power.
To me, Sense 2+ just cheapens things. It negates the element of surprise in missions or scenarios.
"Wait here. <Sense> . Okay there are 6 people to pwn in the next room, lets go. Zap zap zap."

It's only other common use (beyond breaking silly mindtrick attempts) is to tell if somebody is in a room in the Temple as an "OOC heads up" before you enter. Take that as a good thing or not. That's up to you.

So I don't feel Sense has much ground for growth beyond that.
Sure it's good for dodging Sniper shots and for the odd occassion somebody Mind Tricks in a spar, but those don't happen all that often.

However, as Tomoran has said, Sense's relation to Mind Trick is the real kicker here. That's the more important part since Sense is the only (quick) counter to Mind Trick. Giving high levels of Sense to people too early will render Mind Trick somewhat useless for the majority of its growth.

I'd sooner see both skills nerfed or require higher levels to obtain rather than have even earlier access to them globally or see them dished out like candy.

This is just how I feel from what i've witnessed in the past and present and in regards to how they are actually used. (For Laziness, OOC gaming or for cheap lolz.)

Again! This is just how I feel about it but i'm definitely not opposed to having a delay on end-level Sense & Mind Trick for non-specialized classes or for classes that do not specialize in them.

I feel this would add extra value to the "Illusionist" class.

[Ellana]

The one thing that really really bothers me about this set up is the level of which certain classes get the higher up sense levels. I understand why a Illusionist would get it much earlier than the rest of the classes- that makes sense. But I strongly disagree with certain classes getting level 4/5 sense so late. Realistically speaking, for some of them it makes absolutely no sense at all. I would really like to see that changed.

[Ametha Tasia]

I think what Tomoran did with sense was reasonable. The only real problem I see with this set-up is that it hasn't been implemented yet. :p

[Jenny Wrix]

The only real problem I see with this set-up is that it hasn't been implemented yet. :p

QFT

[Delmi N'jork]

That's all fine and good but I still really disagree with it. Especially after reading more into the description of the the classes. Like I said, I completely understand (and agree with) the Illusionist class getting higher level Mind Trick/Sense earlier than anyone else. Reading through your descriptions, the one that gets sense 4/5 pretty late (that makes the least amount of sense, no pun intended) is the Warden class.

Wardens are Jedi who devote their training to protecting their brothers and sisters from the Dark Side.

It's reasonable to say that having a higher level of Sense as a Warden would most likely be quite useful in their line of work from a ICly stand point. I've been in missions, either for myself or for someone else where Sense 4 would have helped them (or me) defeat a Dark Sider just as much as a higher level of absorb would have. I would like to see the sense levels changed for most of the classes, as I think it should be picked by the player, not the class (much like the saber stuffs). At the very least, I think it should be changed with Warden. Perhaps switch it with Watchman.

[Nicholae Carnassi]

Honest comment (no trolling): I don't see why we don't simply just get rid of class restrictions.

[Amoné Fayden]

Instead, why not leave it up to the leisure and the competence of the roleplayers themselves?

Because that's asking a lot.

JEDI isn't the same as it was back then.
Look at people's templates as they are now. You'll see very little specialization.

People take everything they want because they can and that is in no small amount. They've got the XP burning a hole in their pockets so they'll use it and nobody else will say boo to a goose about it.

As admirable as yours and Nicholae's opinion is in regards to this, (and as much as I kind of agree) this class system suggestion aims to regulate and restrict people that can't do it themselves.

It's sad it's come to this, of course, but I'd like to to make the most of it if it's going to be something we have to surrender to and agree on.

Just got to play the cards you're dealt and make the most out of it.

[Delmi N'jork]

I just believe that the "core" abilities of the Jedi (Sense, Push/Pull, Jump, Speed) should not be based on class; that should be up to the player. I've already decided that Delmi won't have any push/pull over level 3. I remember that Blavek had a similar thing, only with level 1 push/pull. I know that there at least one other person like that currently. Leave those powers up to the players.

[Amoné Fayden]

I just believe that the "core" abilities of the Jedi (Sense, Push/Pull, Jump, Speed) should not be based on class; that should be up to the player.

I definitely agree with the Jump part!

[Delmi N'jork]

I'm not saying having every class getting higher levels of the powers early. I agree with certain classes being able to get them earlier. But at the levels that some classes get higher levels of sense, push, pull, jump, and speed are ridiculous.

[Tomoran]

Jump, Push, Pull, Speed and Sense are still control/alter/sense powers that require training and are more geared toward specific paths of training.

They are not inherent in any training and should not be assumed to be natural to anyone. Everyone, by level 15, has level 3 of every power available to them. And that's more than reasonable. Level 4 and 5 are really above and beyond training of certain sorts.

They should not be so excessively common.

[Delmi N'jork]

The ability to sense is fairly common with in the Jedi.

There's a disturbance in the Force.

But in all seriousness, sense levels should be changed.