What is it like to be a ...

[Larkit]

... Hah! Gotcha'! This isn't one of those silly, ridiculous games you probably expected, when you clicked the link and thought, Oh, crap, what is he up to now? --- No, in fact this is highly sophisticated (perhaps a bit too sophisticated for you lot) but I read it and immediately thought, This is of potential great use to role players who want to raise their insight into being someone (or something) else than who (or what) they are in real life.

So ... what is it? I hear you ask. It is two (somewhat lengthy) philosophical papers on the subject of consciousness, or more specifically the mind-body problem. The first, "What is it like to be a bat?" was written by Thomas Nagel in 1974, and the second, "Is there anything it is like to be a bat?" is a further discussion by P.M.S. Hacker (I'm pretty sure his name was intended as a pun by his mother) written in 2002.

Now, I think both papers deserve a little introduction before I give you the links, because it is very easy to dismiss them as very plain, common-sense knowledge. In its shortest form, the conclusion to both papers is: "Well, we can't really say what it is like to be someone else", which is not very informative, nor very insightful. So that is not what one should read into them, and why I am a bit afraid that the broader audience of this forum may not be able to fully grasp their meaning. --- This is not meant to offend anyone, I'm just pointing at the fact that there is (to my knowledge) a large number of teenagers here, and I would at that age probably not be able to read it. Not to mention the (although limited) use of philosophical jargon.

No, the papers raise some interesting points with regard to how one might try to understand what it is like to be, say, a bat or an alien species (Martians are Nagel's examples, but for the sake of this audience, replace that by your favourite SW species). They (or my intentions for posting them) are not intended to provide a set of "how to become a better role player" or "three steps to increase your immersion". They are much more subtle than that. They are to raise a fundamental question about how to know what your character feels or experiences at a lower level in a given situation. In a sense, to put you in a state of slight disillusionment about the epistemology of the virtual experiences you get from playing your character. Or in a condensed form just to make you wonder, What is it like to be me?

Great, with the formalities cleared, I can now grant you access to the second paper, which I would advise you not to read until you've read Nagel's paper:

http://info.sjc.ox.ac.uk/scr/hacker/doc ... %20bat.pdf

Unfortunately, and this is a big bummer, Nagel's paper is not available in its full form for free. I have it, since I had to read it as part of my studies, but I'm afraid that sharing it with you would be a breach of forum policy (and intellectual property laws in most countries --- pah)! However, not all is in vain, because fortunately the paper was reprinted in a few books. And I wouldn't have gone through all this mess, if there wasn't alternative, legal means of reading (almost) the full paper. Google Books. So, here are two books which provide a partial overlap of the full paper:

http://books.google.dk/books?id=GCA_LVmc9kEC&pg=PA391
http://books.google.dk/books?id=fBGPBRX3JsQC&pg=PA165

If you are really interested, you can buy the paper from JSTOR here:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2 ... 1575520651

JSTOR is in the process of releasing a lot of material for free to the public, so there is a reasonable chance that the paper will become available sooner or later.

TL;DR: If you didn't read the above because you found it too long, then just skip this thread.

After so long, I never would've thought I'd say this, but ... dammit, you guys 'n' gals are becoming attractive again!

[Motoko]

As a corollary...

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/08/21/ ... c-insight/

[Sebastin Creed]

Dear Larkit,

You owe me ten minutes of my life back.

Regards,
Sebastin

[Larkit]

As a corollary...

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/08/21/ ... c-insight/

I see it in all its detail and understand it for what it is --- stupid!

Joke aside, I'd really like to say, Nope, that's not true for me, but I'm afraid that would be a rather poorly crafted lie.

Nice, well-written, "corollary". Albeit a slightly different field than the two papers above.

Dear Larkit,

You owe me ten minutes of my life back.

Regards,
Sebastin

Dear Sebastin,

No I don't. If you for some reason felt I wasted your time, feel free to file a complaint through the established channels.

Regards,
Larkit

[Motoko]

Sebs,

Go watch Watership Down. You'll feel better.

[Amoné Fayden]

Larkit I think you got a little lost on the way to Oxford!

This is the JEDI forums!

And no, we won't be grading your dissertation for you.

[Sebastin Creed]

Sebs,

Go watch Watership Down. You'll feel better.

Moto,

I just completed Max Payne 3, I feel much better already.

He's looking into my complaint, Max Payne style.

Regards,
Sebastin

[Arukh Bakh'tor]

Oh okay.