New force powers

[Amoné Fayden]

I see what you're saying Rita but I'm not sure if I agree that it'd be a good idea.

The reason for that is "choke" is Telekinesis/Hold.
It's the exact same power it's just that at level 4 + 5 you are using it to crush the person's neck.

Separating Hold into "Hold" and "Choke" would be like separating Speed into "Run Fast" and "Sprint". The exact same skill split into 2.

My suggestion would be that if you don't want to injure people when using hold or feel that you might have to drop it to level 3 all the time in spars, then simply don't take hold beyond level 3. Aside from a small duration increase, there really is no other reason to take Hold to level 4 and 5 unless you want to do damage.

Same with other devastating Force Powers. Push 5 anyone?

[Esth Me'sku]

Wouldn't level 4 and 5 abilities mean a mastery in that skill? So only be gotten if you... like, have extreme experience in it!

[Amoné Fayden]

Wouldn't level 4 and 5 abilities mean a mastery in that skill? So only be gotten if you... like, have extreme experience in it!

Correct! But in my opinion, only for certain skills that actually have devastating increases in power at level 4 and 5. (Push and Pull for example)
Taking something to level 4 and 5 is sometimes taken as an OOC indication that your character specializes in that area.

However, with that said.

When it comes to Telekinesis, there's no reeeal need to feel pressured into taking the skill to level 4 or 5 just so people will believe your character is good at it OOC. If you want to play off as a Telekinesis-nut but don't want to injure people when you grip them, then I'd say take it to level 3 where it's safe and then play off the rest in character. Like I mentioned earlier there is little difference between levels 3, 4 and 5 beyond doing some damage and a slight *duration increase.

* The duration is rarely used to its full capacity before the player releases it manually anyway!

[Rita Sandria]

Separating Hold into "Hold" and "Choke" would be like separating Speed into "Run Fast" and "Sprint". The exact same skill split into 2.

I personally don't view hold/choke the same as run/sprint because that implies choke is a more advanced version of hold like sprint is to run. While yes, both abilities rely on understanding sustained telekinesis, choke is using it for a destructive purpose. To me I think it would be better to draw a comparison between Hold/Choke and Push/Pull. While there is more a requirement for push and pull to be separate, I think it shows that a similar premise for an ability doesn't limit it to one category

And while I hear your suggestion about the scaling back to level 3 for pretty much all the time, I just feel like I'd be scaling it back 99.9% of the time pretty much destroying any reason to actually buy level 4 and 5. And I am not that much of a fan of this idea because I, like most, want my Force template to reflect my character's knowledge and abilities... and it's a shame the only way I'm able to do that is to invest in a lethal ability my character would rarely, if not never, use. And you could say "just buy it anyway and never use it, that way your Force template will still reflect Rita's knowledge"... but that still doesn't change the fact that when I use level hold 3, I feel like it would work as it's own standalone ability and I know it's something that can be taken further into a non lethal level 4 and 5.

And maybe it's just me but buying a level of an ability purely for sentimental reasons feels a bit like cheating the system.

I also think Choke would work great on its own, although it's unlikely I'll ever be buying that

Wouldn't level 4 and 5 abilities mean a mastery in that skill? So only be gotten if you... like, have extreme experience in it!

Well that's a nothing thing. I don't see why one needs to be a master at sustained TK before they can use it to harm people/objects. Someone who has a simple/decent knowledge of sustained TK can use it for destructive means as well, though I'd imagine they wouldn't be very effective at it.

EDIT

If you want to play off as a Telekinesis-nut but don't want to injure people when you grip them, then I'd say take it to level 3 where it's safe and then play off the rest in character.

While I will probably end up doing that, at least for a looong time, doesn't simply the idea of a level 4 and 5 hold appeal to anyone else but me?

And also I think my Force template is more than just about convincing people OOCly of my "skills". It satisfies me personally to have it reflect all that has happened IC and I would love to see the consistency carried through in this ability like all others.

[Sai Akiada]

Hold maxes out at level 3 precisely for the reasons stated before about the issue of adding addition abilities. If one wants the choke ability, it needs to be on the end of hold.

All that said, choke is hold. Just with different intent.

[Alehk Thol]

Regarding Hold 4 & 5:

As all animations associated with "Grip" are available as emotes, there's even less of a call to purchase the ability. Admins are able to force one or multiple NPCs to act as if they are being choked, and given the situations in which Grip is typically used under, most players will co-operate with the attempt to use it. The main benefit of using the emotes as an alternative is that no damage is done to the choked player. This means both parties are free to type and action without one player suddenly collapsing. The only downside to using emotes/actions for Grip specifically is that the person being choked doesn't levitate from the ground. But, if that were to bother anyone, I would advise them to re-watch the original trilogy and count how many times Vader uses the Force to choke someone in midair.

[Amoné Fayden]

Yeah I can understand where you're coming from Rita.

EDIT:
Especially on your comment about 4 and 5 reflecting your effort.
I'm a speed fan after all and currently, I get outrun by somebody at level 1 just because their model scale is bigger!

But you're going by the intent of the user, not what the skill is. We could then argue that all Force Powers need a Dark Side alternative to them to compensate for how players want to use them.
Mind Trick becomes Force Subjugate or something like that.

I guess the other thing would be, if Hold and Grip were separate powers, what would we do to them to make levels 4 and 5 unique and more importantly - different from each other beyond one does damage and the other does not.

[Alehk Thol]

As this is a topic regarding new Force powers, I'm just going to put forth that I've always been in favour of adding support for Force Blinding. Imagine the equivalent of a flash-bang, without the noise.

EDIT: Force Stun/Stasis would be another interesting addition. If we were to have an animation that had the victim player swaying where they stood.

[Rita Sandria]

The only downside to using emotes/actions for Grip specifically is that the person being choked doesn't levitate from the ground. But, if that were to bother anyone, I would advise them to re-watch the original trilogy and count how many times Vader uses the Force to choke someone in midair.

Everything you said was true, and we only see people lift from the ground in games like JKA.

I'm actually starting to question why we need grip at all since it can be so efficiently RP'd without any red effects around the throat.

Funnily enough this post has me considering the complete opposite of what it was created for... taking abilities out. Though that idea might seem a bit extreme to some, so I wasn't going to start advocating my hold 4 and 5 idea without some level of compromise for all the dark side ability lovers

[Kieran Orion]

I do think perhaps Force Lightening or "Storm" Could be renamed to better suit the needs of Jedi, such as what it was recently referred to as "Disable Droid" by one of the younger students in game with me at the time. I'm don't mean to sound rude but I find the idea of a Jedi learning something so destructive and self harming, as Lightening, to be ludicrous...

[Amoné Fayden]

Remember, as we discussed earlier in the topic, there's no need to name your character's ability after the label that appears on your template.

For all intents and purposes, "Lightning" is "Storm" or "Shock" or "Disable Droid" or whatever. There's no need to have Soh change the name of it purely for cosmetics.
Your character can't see what RPMod calls it, so there's no reason to feel corralled into using the name our Mod uses.

Amoné has Fury but IC It's just another form of acceleration. She's not running at you in a blind fit of rage just because RPMod said it had to be!

[Kieran Orion]

True that...It's not difficult to think outside the square when it comes to Roleplaying, I suppose. If it was, I probably wouldn't be very good at it...

Just strikes me as something that catches my eye when looking at the template is all. You're right though, I suppose in the end it is purely cosmetic...People look at the Clan mod, see it's a Jedi based community and then see something like storm, it's just one of those things ya' know. Tolerable in every right, just a little...different ?

Yeah...Moving on..

[Syrena Exan]

Those people may wonder why it says lightning, but it would get sorted out as soon as they started interacting with us. Doesn't matter what they think about it anyway! It's what it's used as that counts.

Besides, if I remember correctly from the past, Soh wasn't designing RPMod just for JEDI. Some of the skills names still are dark side or exist because he intended to put the mod out publicly one day. It's there so other communities could use it as they see fit, which means including dark side abilities.

[Khátla Merie]

Kyle Katarn: ""Remember: abilities are not inherently good or evil, it's how you use them."

A lot of these ideas are pretty good, but starting to change around force powers and what not is a little extreme when we have so much power of freedom when we rp. Look at Azra'el for an example, his force light is a splendid example. He doesn't have a new ability programmed in that disables all supposed dark side abilities or anything. It's just common sense that people respond sensibly to rp actions hehe.

[Oberon]

Well, what Amone is trying to say is that the Force "weapons" (which is what they basically are in the quake 3 engine) should have no bearing on how you role play your characters abilities. The in game powers could be named FORCE POWER 1, or 2 or 3, or whatever.

It's up to the player to creatively use the effects of that particular power in order to give their character's personal abilities substance in game.

So when considering any additions to the Force mechanics don't focus on renaming powers to make their labels more benign, but instead new effects we don't already have - so something like Alehk mentioned (I like his suggestions)

But in the end remember that the in game powers are a special effect that we use to spice up our script. I will always enjoy an well thought out, narrative action that describes a creative utilization of Force energy coupled with cooperation between players much more than I would someone mashing a button and my throat starts mimicking the Imperial garbage masher on the detention level.