rproll command

[Aayla Vigil]

I have a simple suggestion for an addition to RPmod, a simple feature that is common to most RP games: a dice rolling command.

The line would be simple:

"/rproll <dice face numbers> <player>"

With the result being visible in "say chat" if the field <player> is empty, or visible only the that specific player if the field <player> is specified.

[Delmi N'jork]

Support this so much. I've been in (and I'm sure others have) where something like this would have been extremely useful.

[Skrassk]

Despite this having been suggested at least once or twice already in the past, it would be an interesting thing, have it universally available so any and all members/guests/etc can use it.

Would make for an interesting addition, sometimes even the smallest things can make a big difference and change the way people may approach roleplay.

[Virtuo Alegan]

I'd like that added, be handy when it comes to emoting an action taken against another player, (e.g. Pickpocketing, A punch to the face, etc.). Be less arguing over if it happens or not.

[Motoko]

I've never seen a reason to use it in opposing actions with another player without a GM present, but I like the idea. Nice to throw in a bit of randomness to determine degrees of failure or success, even if one or the other is pre-ordained by the plot, and something players can key off of.

[Khátla Merie]

We just have to make sure, if indeed an RProll command is placed into the game. That common sense is used amongst students and such. That or abilities or levels give you a modifier on your roll. Or to state clearly that rolling isn't obligated under certain circumstances. Otherwise hopefuls may as well do extremely lucky rolls against highly experienced knights and masters or something troll'ish

[Motoko]

I believe that's the idea, and it's more for initiates and above when we're out doing things that might have a random chance, loaded with modifiers, of failure or success.

If we absolutely had to specify 'common sense' and police other members abusing dice rolls, then as a community we're doing something drastically wrong.

[Oberon]

I'm always a fan of increased functionality in a mod (usually since I'm not doing any of the work ) HOWEVER, the reasoning behind this idea sort of irks me.

Are people really so incapable of roleplaying failure at any time that they need a game mechanic to determine their success rate? Pro tip, you're not going to have a character arc if you're super-pro-Jedi all the time.

In every suggestion there's always that naysayer and I hate to be that guy this time around but I'm really weary of something like this. It's immersion breaking, fosters mediocre role playing ability, and will just end up causing more problems than it solved.

Everyone who has supported it has said it will bring a new approach to role play. Yeah, sure, the stat-mongering approach that plagues DnD video game role play (like Neverwinter Nights) and I differ in that I've NEVER been in a situation where I've preferred an ambiguous dice rolling mechanic to simply acknowledging that the other character in the "clash" is more or less practiced in the skill in question.

Too many factors come in to play, making this device not a feasible alternative to effective "DM'ing." Character's level of training, responsibility, awareness at that particular moment, familiarity with items/people/etc involved, you name it.

I will take effective, fair, rational, and fun text rp over rproll any day of the cycle.

[Rita Sandria]

Are people really so incapable of roleplaying failure at any time that they need a game mechanic to determine their success rate? Pro tip, you're not going to have a character arc if you're super-pro-Jedi all the time.

I'm going to have to agree with Oberon entirely on this. I too hate to be one who shoots down the suggestion but there has never been a scenario in which a rproll command was preferred over a role played solution.

When it comes to things like this I think I can trust the majority of JEDI not to act like 'the most powerful Jedi ever'.

[Motoko]

Saying that suddenly we're all going to be stat whores rolling dice to get things done is a really big stretch. Also, while your style of DMing might not make it a feasible, effective alternative, there are some styles that would benefit from this.

Sometimes I can't honestly decide if my NPC should drop his gun in fright, or accidentally shoot it as part of the same reflex. It's not always a competitive action or something with far reaching consequences.

There's also the impact it has on players. When a DM says "roll," it has a drastically different effect than a DM just flat out telling them "You fail." on the player. There are times when running head long into an impass when the plot seems to be going pretty far is disheartening. I know the counter-argument is that we're BAMF RPers and we don't let it get to us, but it does. You don't even have to let a max roll win automatically. Using the instance of Mo working on a droid memory core....

Mo: ((What else do I find?))
GM: ((Hmmm... Mo's pretty good with tech.... go ahead and roll for me.))
Mo: /rproll 20
(I) Mo rolls a 15
Mo: ((Sweet! That's pretty good!))
The GM has already decided what Mo's going to find.
GM: ((You see images of a droid army marching in the snow, with some mountains in the background.))

Alternatively.....

Mo: /rproll 20
(I) Mo rolls a 20
Mo: ((BOOYA! What's there?))
GM: ((You see images of a droid army marching in the snow, with some mountains in the background.))
Mo: ((That's it?))
GM: ((You also find some holos of an adult nature someone stashed there to hide.))
Mo: Master come see what I fou-...By the Force... that's revolting.... a small dose of hilarity ensues

And lastly....

(I) Mo rolls a 1
Mo: ((Poodoo.))
GM: ((You see images of a droid army marching in the snow, with some mountains in the background, before the core suddenly fails and fries itself.))

Of course, I can see the concerns with is the dark side of this...

Mo: ::Cooks a meal::
Random Other: ((Dude, you should roll for that.))
Mo: ((She's making a sammich. How hard is that?))
Random Other: ((YOU NEED TO ROLL OR YOU'RE A BAD RPER.))

and

(I) Random Other rolls a 20
GM: ((The door moves slightly but still doesn't open.))
Random Other: ((OMFG I ROLLED A 20 IT HAS TO OPEN, YOU'RE A BAD GM!))

This is counterweighted though by the fact that we have a nice page of tips, suggestions, and rules that we've all read by now, or in some cases wrote. Things like that shouldn't happen and if they do, then some people need to do some serious re-evaluating about how they play and fit in here.

There's a serious vetting process to get in ::JEDI::, and the fact that some people worry about the hypothetical behavior of the community troubles me slightly. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to consider how negative behaviors could affect things on the server, it's pretty darn important, but I think putting so much emphasis on what would be worst case scenarios makes me question how we view eachother's RP styles. I can honestly say that there is no one in this community, other than a short-lived random hopeful, that I can think of that would engage in such behavior. I know everyone's RP style well enough, I think, either by direct interaction or reputation.

Do we really not trust each other that much?

[Oberon]

There's a serious vetting process to get in ::JEDI::, and the fact that some people worry about the hypothetical behavior of the community troubles me slightly. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to consider how negative behaviors could affect things on the server, it's pretty darn important, but I think putting so much emphasis on what would be worst case scenarios makes me question how we view eachother's RP styles. I can honestly say that there is no one in this community, other than a short-lived random hopeful, that I can think of that would engage in such behavior. I know everyone's RP style well enough, I think, either by direct interaction or reputation.

Do we really not trust each other that much?

So... why, if any of the above parapgraphs is true, would we implement something that's designed to take away control from role players and give it to an ambiguous, randomized number generator? If we're supposed to trust "you" (the player) then that should extend to trusting "you" not to be a powergamer 24/7, right?

And "you" should trust us to recognize your characters strengths and draw upon them to further the story when we're directing a scenario.

while your style of DMing might not make it a feasible, effective alternative, there are some styles that would benefit from this.

It's just not feasible in really any DM style when it comes to JEDI missions/scenarios etc. I hate to "ruin the Disney magic by giving tours of the backlot" but honestly not much is left up to chance when it comes to JEDI RP scenarios. Usually you either find/open/do what mission directors want you to find or you don't. And since, like you said, we're small because we're selective of who we let in it isn't that hard for us mission directors to keep track of who's got what skill. Afterall we are writing the mission with you in mind.

For example, I know personally how much time Amoné has spent poking around her swoop bike's engine so why on earth would I make her roll a dice to effect repairs on it should it get damaged in the field?

I experimented with a dice system where I would whisper some people to guess a number between x and y and based on their expertise they could be off by 1 or so numbers. It was fine in theory but ultimately I would simply change my mind in favor of forwarding the plot. Even if they were way off I told them they nailed it just so we could pick up the story and move on. If you run into one of those impasses you mentioned perhaps the information just isn't OOCly there or relevant to the plot. Granted some DMs are better at improv than others.

Sometimes I can't honestly decide if my NPC should drop his gun in fright, or accidentally shoot it as part of the same reflex. It's not always a competitive action or something with far reaching consequences.

A good rule of thumb is to think about the motivations/drives of that character... even if it's a throwaway character you've drummed up for only one Galaxy trip.

Also, if it's not always a competitive action then what IS it for? With this level of ambiguity when it comes to what is suitable for rolls and what isn't it's just going to breed inconsistency that's going to lead to annoyance, only a small percentage actually using rolls to determine outcomes rather than creativity, and then the feature not even being used at all.

[Kieran Orion]

So long as this is used with NPC's and not other players, I'd approve but for Character to Character interactions, I'd not want this implemented in any of my Role playing for the simple fact that I don't like the idea of control being taken away from us (The players).

A perfect use for this, might be something small like Saber colors for Hopefuls/initiates. That'd be awesome...But for Role playing with others, I prefer to have faith in the people I'm role playing with, to be fair and realistic, as much as possible.

So yeah, I approve with chance/small time instances and non-PVP type stuff. Player interaction, missions, and other stuff. I'm good without it.

On a side note....This would be great for games...

[Motoko]

Obs, don't worry, I knew when I first got here how the 'Disney Magic' works. Granted when I first got here, I don't think Disney owned the force yet... This wouldn't be a requirement, the system would be completely optional. You're not taking control away from anyone or anything unless you choose to. One of my examples of possible poor behavior addressed exactly these issues. It's another tool in the box, not a shackle around the ankle. You can't godmode things by action or dice rolls. What I'm advocating is a way to roll the dice with the results being public.

I didn't really want to go there, but a good use for this is tempering skills a bit. I've seen it happen where someone handles difficulty in the coolest way possible and there are OOC whispers of "Well that character can never seem to do anything wrong." I've also seen where characters supposedly good at one thing have had it improved onto them that they failed in some way: i.e. a naturally good cook baking cookies and the first person eating one emotes that they're awful. It gets even nastier when there's OOC problems between the players involved. I'm not saying I've seen all these behaviors in ::JEDI::, but I've seen inclinations and lighter versions of some of these. I know I went on about trusting other ::JEDI:: players, but I'm not completely blind to the reality. The rolling alleviates some of the problem as it's hard to eye-roll during the cool emote a character uses to solve a problem when everyone knows they rolled a 20.

Your example of Amoné working on her bike would fall under my sammich example. Just because you're rolling dice doesn't mean that you abandon all common sense. It's her bike. She built the thing. The player would probably skip even typing ((wut?)) and just reach throught the monitor and smack me if I asked for a roll. If she was trying to fix someone else's bike, it might be different. Still an automatic success, but to what degree? When I've GMed in both PC and PnP, that's the way I roll (lol). Same as everyone else, the major plot points are all pre-ordained to occur in certain ways at certain times. However, there are lots of little things that I can't quite decide on, I don't have the time to sit there and psychoanalyze my throw-away NPC and their childhood, and rolling publicly like that gives everyone a general idea of what's happened and can gauge an appropriate response from when they see the number. It can and has worked for me, and I never recieved any complaints from players or had problems getting things to flow.

I don't understand the argument that you're stifling or removing creativity. I still have to interpret the numbers into an appropriately skilled action, based on a scale that I also have to create. The reason I rolled the dice is because I wanted a random result on these fabricated weighted scales. I like having the dice throw monkeys into the wrench sometimes just to see what happens and what I can come up with. I obviously don't do it all the time, and I never advocated that anyone should. It's a great option I think and one that I believe myself and the community could benefit from.

[Oberon]

Let me pose something to you. Would you rather a situation be resolved in a RPG number crunch or your character actually SOLVING the problem based on their knowledge and experience?

Motoko's good at electronics stuff. Which do you think is better at "tempering skills"?

Director: ::Upon closer examination you discover that some of the wiring behind the panel is completely fried. Only the ones responsible for actually signalling the doors to part.::
Motoko: ::Reaches in to pull free some of the non-essential wiring with a grunt. Arranging the wires in her hand, she glances up at the panel's contents preparing to fix the important connections.::
Director: ((ok make an electronics roll please))
*Motoko rolls 2
Director: ((oh thats too bad)) ::Looks like it's not your day and for some reason you just can't shove the wires into the proper holes. The circuit bored shorts out and you remain trapped in the room.::

...makes a whole lot of sense [/sarcasm]


[quote="The "right way""]Director: ::Upon closer examination you discover that some of the wiring behind the panel is completely fried. Only the ones responsible for actually signalling the doors to part.::
Motoko: ::Reaches in to pull free some of the non-essential wiring with a grunt. Arranging the wires in her hand, she glances up at the panel's contents preparing to fix the important connections. Rigs the wires in the proper order and grimaces at the shoddy patch job:: Well, it will hold long enough to get me out of here.
Director: ::The wires hold but you notice a red, flashing diode by the circuit board. The aurebesh lettering beside it reads overheat. Still the doors remain sealed.::
Motoko: ::Looks around the room.:: I need to find cable with a high resistance to scavange around here.

...blah blah etc etc[/quote]

The second demonstrates creative problem solving where you can actually prove yourself to be adept at your chosen field of study... instead of just being subjected to a game of chance. I think posing a set-back or a problem that a character has to react to (sometimes in ways that a DM won't expect and will have to improv to) is FAR better than a dice roll at testing a character's skill.

So in conclusion this whole rproll is gimmicky at best and ultimately superfluous. May as well live stream that http://www.roll-dice-online.com website to whoever decides to opt in for the lulz.

*As for the point about the NPCs... I think with JEDI's tradition of long set up times you could probably have SOME time to think about how your temp. character would react to things. And if it IS a throwaway character... what makes you think he or she should get some sort of "dice roll" chance against a Jedi Knight or their student? You're an extra in their script. Granted, no one should be Boppin' you on the head once and knocking you out but people get caught way to far up trying to "win the game" against the JEDI characters when the play NPCs for some reason... spraying with alt fire or whatever. Save your critical thinking when it comes to decision making for your main character. ANYWAYS this is all off-topic.

Moral of the entire story: Plair fair. Have fun. You'll have your day. Trust me.

[Kieran Orion]

Let me pose something to you. Would you rather a situation be resolved in a RPG number crunch or your character actually SOLVING the problem based on their knowledge and experience?

Motoko's good at electronics stuff. Which do you think is better at "tempering skills"?

Director: ::Upon closer examination you discover that some of the wiring behind the panel is completely fried. Only the ones responsible for actually signalling the doors to part.::
Motoko: ::Reaches in to pull free some of the non-essential wiring with a grunt. Arranging the wires in her hand, she glances up at the panel's contents preparing to fix the important connections.::
Director: ((ok make an electronics roll please))
*Motoko rolls 2
Director: ((oh thats too bad)) ::Looks like it's not your day and for some reason you just can't shove the wires into the proper holes. The circuit bored shorts out and you remain trapped in the room.::

...makes a whole lot of sense [/sarcasm]


[quote="The "right way""]Director: ::Upon closer examination you discover that some of the wiring behind the panel is completely fried. Only the ones responsible for actually signalling the doors to part.::
Motoko: ::Reaches in to pull free some of the non-essential wiring with a grunt. Arranging the wires in her hand, she glances up at the panel's contents preparing to fix the important connections. Rigs the wires in the proper order and grimaces at the shoddy patch job:: Well, it will hold long enough to get me out of here.
Director: ::The wires hold but you notice a red, flashing diode by the circuit board. The aurebesh lettering beside it reads overheat. Still the doors remain sealed.::
Motoko: ::Looks around the room.:: I need to find cable with a high resistance to scavange around here.

...blah blah etc etc

The second demonstrates creative problem solving where you can actually prove yourself to be adept at your chosen field of study... instead of just being subjected to a game of chance. I think posing a set-back or a problem that a character has to react to (sometimes in ways that a DM won't expect and will have to improv to) is FAR better than a dice roll at testing a character's skill.

[/quote]

I completely Agree with this.

Hence why I won't rule out small time things like gambling, pazaak, swoop races ...Anything Kieran might've needed it (Small harmless things, like games with younglings) for, but like Oberon said, i think real Role playing (Missions, interactions with live players) should be role played, not rolled upon in my opinion.