/status command

[Cyril Feraan]

A new NPC/droid itself is easy to program and already in the works.

I just think it would be nice to have somebody say "Hello Master Y, I heard you were on a mission to Planet Z, how was your trip?" instead of digging up the topic 4 months (4 in-game YEARS) after it happens because they finally heard through the grapevine.

I don't mind your rebuttal, except for this part. If someone seriously walked up to me and said "Hello I heard you were on X", this would be considered very disrespectful (curiosity/intrusiveness on private affairs), as interesting as it might be. Wouldn't you think I should be able to roleplay what I need to? This is the same sort of problem I had in the biography topic. I don't need OOC mechanisms explaining my roleplay for me. I feel the way I roleplay my affairs more than covers this IC. You may not know a lot of my affairs, but this may be because my character isn't very close to you, therefore it's natural. You can probably find out OOC by asking around (or even asking me on MSN ).

I've rarely seen instances where people are denied IC knowledge if it's appropriate for them to know. In fact, I'd almost suffice to say people know too much about affairs outside of the objects of their direct concern. I appreciate the desire for more conversation subjects, so I usually do bring such things up if I can. I converse with plenty of people, so if it's fine for them to know, I can use any recent/upcoming outings as a conversation topic.

In short, I can see where this idea stems from, but I really feel as though IC knowledge should be regulated to what we can directly find out rather than simply looking things up. This is a borderline OOC behavior. I'm content with what Cyril can find out for himself by talking to people. If he can't find something out this way, perhaps he really ought not to know. Not all information needs to necessarily be available to all characters...

[Aslyn Denethorn]

Wouldn't you think I should be able to roleplay what I need to?

Should, yes. Will? No. Invariably everyone is going to RP differently - and, frankly, a lot of us are friendly enough to start a conversation with a simple "Hey, I haven't seen you in a while, so I guess you went off-world. Was it fun?" Or something of that sort. And when you get people NOT talking about where they're going or what they're doing, that's just, well, DULL. I don't know anyone IRL that would be able to not say something if they spent a week away in the Bahamas, or even the Arctic Circle. And we're talking people going to a different PLANET. Yes, it's a topic for discussion. Where's the harm in taking that a step further?

And, respectfully, Master Feraan, nobody said anything about an OOC mechanism - a droid is an IC mechanism, and could even be RPed as having status updates programmed with such information. Let's face it - the Order would naturally keep track of all of it's Jedi at all times. So someone or something will have that record, and I don't see why everyone else would be denied access to that, at least on a basic level.

In short, I can see where this idea stems from, but I really feel as though IC knowledge should be regulated to what we can directly find out rather than simply looking things up.

And if someone's off-world, how are you going to 'directly' find that out unless you ask someone else who knows, or wait until they come back? Like Vantus said, that sort of information often doesn't go fully around the Temple (contrary to the natural gossip-machine) for weeks, and each one is, IC, months in length. If someone's not around, it'd be nice to be able to find out where - and since that information would be controlled by the person in question, they could leave as much or as little information as they want. Makes regulating said information dead simple.

You're right - not all information should be available to everyone. But you're quite capable of adding exceptions and restrictions to an interactive NPC droid. If you want some of that restricted, that's easy to do. But as Vantus said, this way we'd at least be able to add something to the RP that we thus far aren't very good at.

Let's face it - we know more OOC than we do IC, from Journals and the 'Inform the Council' posts. It'd be nice if we could maybe bridge the gap a little so we didn't have to risk compromising the RP from time-to-time.

[Vantus]

Aslyn puts it perfectly there.

I think there was just a misunderstanding on my approach Cyril.

I wasn't meaning that we should know OOC facts in character. Far from it!
I'm in total agreement with you about people having OOC knowledge that they bring into RP when they shouldn't be.

My point was, if you did NOT want people to pry into your business or know where you have been or are going, you do NOT use the /status command and update the NPC with the messages.

It's a player choice.

It's like a person (Jedi) telling another person (The NPC)where they're going. You can chose to tell others (Via the NPC) so they know and can pass on the message to anyone asking. Or you can just go out and not tell anyone and wait until anyone asks you personally or you feel it appropriate to tell.

If you use the feature, you're ASKING to be asked in a sense. Or at least letting others know a little bit about your situation in which to use in their RP or inform others that might ask about you in your absense.

It also does not need to include details of that person's business. You don't need to say whether you are going to save a small village or whether you're going out to buy a pair of socks. You don't even need to say what planet. You can make it as informative or as informative as you wish it. Or just not use it at all if it suits.

That's how I picture it anyway.

Sorry if It sounded arguementative before, I just wanted to clarify.
I certainly agree with you Cyril, that I would NEVER want people to bring their OOC knowledge from Journal entries and such into the Server as RP.

[Gabe Alkorda]

I'm not really a fan of this idea. The way I see it, if I can't remember where/when I last saw someone, it's reasonable to assume that my character wouldn't either. Additionally, this would take effort to keep updated and accurate, and I believe that it would most likely fall by the wayside, and people would forget about it.

I disagree with any solution that inhibits talking to others. If you don't talk to others IC and find out where someone is, you really ought not to know where they are. It just takes a bit of thinking. Haven't seen someone for awhile? Perhaps they're offworld and you should ask around, instead of assuming they're just sleeping in their dormitory.

As for OOC, the administrators have better ways to keep tabs on other people than any status feature.

I am completely against any implementation of this for these two reasons.

If I am leaving, I do not inform some temple gossip droid, I inform the Council, and perhaps my Padawan and my brother. If I want others to know, I will tell them.

If you want people to know where you're going, tell them IC, in the Temple, personally. Don't rely on gossip droids to relay your whereabouts. The less depersonalization the better.

[Xaran Varc]

I'm not really a fan of this idea. The way I see it, if I can't remember where/when I last saw someone, it's reasonable to assume that my character wouldn't either. Additionally, this would take effort to keep updated and accurate, and I believe that it would most likely fall by the wayside, and people would forget about it.

I disagree with any solution that inhibits talking to others. If you don't talk to others IC and find out where someone is, you really ought not to know where they are. It just takes a bit of thinking. Haven't seen someone for awhile? Perhaps they're offworld and you should ask around, instead of assuming they're just sleeping in their dormitory.

As for OOC, the administrators have better ways to keep tabs on other people than any status feature.

I am completely against any implementation of this for these two reasons.

If I am leaving, I do not inform some temple gossip droid, I inform the Council, and perhaps my Padawan and my brother. If I want others to know, I will tell them.

If you want people to know where you're going, tell them IC, in the Temple, personally. Don't rely on gossip droids to relay your whereabouts. The less depersonalization the better.

I agree.

[Cyril Feraan]

If you can't find out information that someone wants others to know, you aren't roleplaying actively enough. If it's as you say and it takes "weeks to find out", then perhaps consider your character was never really meant to know.

I agree that perhaps if people really want it, it can be made a personal choice.

But on the principle of the matter, I believe that there are some things that are nice to talk about, but I won't talk about because there is a distinction on what is appropriate. While I'll usually discuss my affairs with other Knights, in general, my affairs are not the business of students other than my Padawan Learner. In turn, I'm willing to believe from my experience in real life that most children, at least, in turn do not care about what adults are doing in their lives. I perhaps could make an exception for older students who have matured, but it depends on your character's relationship with my character. Can the affairs of Knights make interesting conversation? Of course. But it's an OOC impulse to want to generate RP, rather than the natural behavior of a character, and I must respect the character...

Realize that the way I handle this is derived from what makes sense IC. If JEDI was purely OOC, I wouldn't have a problem with this concept at all because it makes sense through that particular lens.

I hope this makes sense.

[Vantus]

Looks like this one's getting beat hands down!

People seem to be under the impression from what I was saying, that this will be an enforced thing. That anyone leaving the Temple will not be able to keep their business their own. I've said a dozen times that this could be optional. If you want to be aloof and secretive as that is how your character behaves, then that's fine! I've no quibbles about that!

Most Knights and Above don't want anyone knowing their business as Cyril said, with the exclusion of other Knights and Masters. That again is perfectly fine! RP will continue as usual for that group and you don't need to use the /status command or whatever it may be.

You seem to forget, however, the rest of the JEDI populous which goes beyond Knights and Masters and consist of Initiates and Padawans. I'm pretty sure there's a good bunch of those that will more than likely LOVE to talk about a recent trip they were on but find it hard blurting it out without sounding odd.

It's like Aslyn said, People (lets keep Padawans in mind for this example) are going offworld and doing amazing things which involve seeing wonderfull and strange planets, KILLING dozens of people and almost getting killed themselves. When they get back to the temple, nobody cares. Heck, nobody cares because nobody knows they were gone! We can't ask him/her how their mission went because unless we are told in RP, we can't use our OOC knowledge that they were on a mission.
That's where the NPC comes in.

For Example, (this is purely hypothetical):

Vantus decides he's going back to Rori. The night I log on the server before I go, there are only 1 or two students around. There's perhaps a few key characters that I'd like to inform about it for RP/story purposes but obviously can't. I leave a /status message, "Vantus departed for Rori on <date>. He left a message: 'I couldn't wait for you any longer'."

I'm inviting people that view this to approach me later about it, beit a curious peer looking for a chat or my furious Master looking for an explination. It keeps RP purely on the server and stops me from reverting to MSN and Forum PMs which nobody will ever experience.

Of course there are other ways I could get that information across. Of course this is not going to alter RP as we know it.
It would just be a nice way of getting news you WANT spreading around to reach the ears of others without having to go round each individual one telling them about it when your character really wouldn't.

So you see Master Alkorda, it's not a Gossip Droid, it's a message taking voicemail Droid!

That's how I see it anyway.

[Aslyn Denethorn]

Nailed it, Vantus. Good work

[Cyril Feraan]

If you can't find out information that someone wants others to know, you aren't roleplaying actively enough. If it's as you say and it takes "weeks to find out", then perhaps consider your character was never really meant to know.

I agree that perhaps if people really want it, it can be made a personal choice.

But on the principle of the matter, I believe that there are some things that are nice to talk about, but I won't talk about because there is a distinction on what is appropriate. While I'll usually discuss my affairs with other Knights, in general, my affairs are not the business of students other than my Padawan Learner. In turn, I'm willing to believe from my experience in real life that most children, at least, in turn do not care about what adults are doing in their lives. I perhaps could make an exception for older students who have matured, but it depends on your character's relationship with my character. Can the affairs of Knights make interesting conversation? Of course. But it's an OOC impulse to want to generate RP, rather than the natural behavior of a character, and I must respect the character...

Realize that the way I handle this is derived from what makes sense IC. If JEDI was purely OOC, I wouldn't have a problem with this concept at all because it makes sense through that particular lens.

I hope this makes sense.

Read what I said again.

I wasn't arguing particularly against the idea in this thread, but making a separate argument for why I think random conversations and inquiries made to me are a little unrealistic.... Please refrain from inferring this to be a simple personal preference that is "aloof" or "secretive"; it's rather an attempt to be true to roleplay, which would mean that students know better than to ask about my affairs without a warranted reason. Even a "How are you, Master Feraan?" can be excessive if it's just asked out of the blue by someone I don't really talk to regularly. Think about it like real life. Do you go around asking everyone at your school/work/etc. "How are you today?" I don't like starting conversation without real IC reasons, that is, starting conversations just because there's nothing else to do. I don't know how I could really be much clearer, but thanks to those who take the time to understand my point. Personally, I don't need this suggestion, but if others want it, I'm indifferent. In short, there's nothing to be offended by.

That's as much as I'll say OOC. If someone does it anyway IC, expect IC consequences...including a lecture on the vice of curiosity.

edit: As a side note, I'd be happy to continue this discussion on MSN, but further replies on the Comport just serves to draw this thread more off-topic.

[Jamus Kevari]

Let's just create Twitter accounts for our characters and call it "HoloTweet."

[Xaran Varc]

Let's just create Twitter accounts for our characters and call it "HoloTweet."

Oh, dear. We're going down the drainpipe.

[Selan]

THe itsy bitsy spider went up the water spowl, down came the goblin, who blew the spider up..

[Vantus]

Yeah I suppose we could leave it at that then.

My only point though Cyril, was that NOBODY would even ask your character how his mission went (etc) if nobody KNOWS about it. You would really have nothing to worry about if this suggestion was taken on because you just wouldn't use the feature.

If you don't use the feature, nobody can snoop in on your business. If nobody snoops in on your business, nobody knows your business. If nobody knows your business, nobody will ask you about it.

Things would be just like they are now. This suggestion would be for people that DO want to use it.


But yeah i'm done. I've wasted a week's worth of argumentative writing on one topic I didn't even start. What's up with that?!

[Cyril Feraan]

Yeah I suppose we could leave it at that then.

My only point though Cyril, was that NOBODY would even ask your character how his mission went (etc) if nobody KNOWS about it. You would really have nothing to worry about if this suggestion was taken on because you just wouldn't use the feature.

If you don't use the feature, nobody can snoop in on your business. If nobody snoops in on your business, nobody knows your business. If nobody knows your business, nobody will ask you about it.

Things would be just like they are now. This suggestion would be for people that DO want to use it.


But yeah i'm done. I've wasted a week's worth of argumentative writing on one topic I didn't even start. What's up with that?!

My point is for behavior to fall in line with expectations, irrespective of whether such a feature exists and whether I use it. I shouldn't have to think: can't use this, because it'll be used inappropriately against me.

Don't get me wrong, most people are great about it. Just a personal reminder.

[Gabe Alkorda]

I completely understand that you're saying it's not compulsory, if it were, I'd be much more aggressive

However, I believe that even having it as an option would lead to depersonalization. We have noted that there is a problem: nobody talks about their missions. The cause of the problem being that nobody knows that people go on missions. The solution should not be some impersonal droid that simply spits out saved strings, rather, people should take the initiative to tell others there they're going. We should foster a stronger sense of community rather than weakening it further by relying on an *answering-machine* droid.